Autobiografische Bücher von Jagdfliegern des WW II Einstellungen

[Hummingbird]

Ich interessiere mich für autobiografische Erinnerungen von Jagdfliegern des zweiten Weltkrieges.

Nachdem ich die populären Namen abgearbeitet habe, bin ich nun auf Bücher gestoßen, über die ich wissen wollte ob die hier vielleicht jemand gelesen hat, und irgendwas dazu sagen kann.


-Helmut Lipfert: Das Tagebuch des Hauptmann Lipfert

-Peter Düttmann: Wir kämpften in einsamen Höhen

-Ulrich Steinhilper: Die gelbe Zwei

-Heinz H. Eberle: Meine Stunde Null

[Ta152]

Schau Dir mal die Bücher des Verlages Neunundzwanzigsechs an.

http://www.neunundzwanzigsechs.de/

"Die Erste und die Letzten" von Adolf Galland ist auch empfehlenswert.

[Hummingbird]

Da spricht der Kenner.

Die Bücher vom Neunundzwanzigsechs-Verlag sind mit das beste was man auf Deutsch bekommt und mir wohlbekannt.

Besonders hat mir das Buch von Rall gefallen. Galland habe ich natürlich auch gelesen.


Wobei ich halt gerade nicht so recht weis was mich bei oben genannten Büchern erwartet.

Steinhilper der unter Galland am Kanal flog bevor er abgeschossen wurde und in Gefangenschaft geriet, soll sich ja kritisch über Galland äußern, als dieser noch Staffelkapitän war und sich im „sportlichen Wettkampf“ mit Mölders wähnte.
Das interessiert mich schon, auch wenn er den Luftkrieg nur bis 1941 mitbekommen hat.

[MasterOfMaul]

war das der, der dann nach kanada kam und dann mehrfach ausgebrochen ist?
wenn ja hab ich den schon mal persönlich getroffen. meint n reibach mit seinen erlebnissen machen zu müssen...

[Hummingbird]

Ja, genau der.
Ich kann nichts zu der Person und ihren Motiven, Perspektiven etc. sagen, aber wenn man mal angefangen hat mit Jagdflieger Autobiografien, dann will man die Liste halt vervollständigen.

Ich habe auch die Bücher von Rudel gelesen. Durchaus empfehlenswert.
Die armen Schweine die unter ihm dienen mussten…

Erzähl doch mal wie du Steinhilper erlebt hast.

[Ta152]

< snip >
Ich habe auch die Bücher von Rudel gelesen. Durchaus empfehlenswert.
< snip >

Kenne nur "Mein Kriegstagebuch" von Ihm. Meine Kurzzusammenfassung wäre "Ein Nazi der NAzi gebleiben ist erzählt seine Heldengeschichten"

[Honest Abe]

< snip >
Ich habe auch die Bücher von Rudel gelesen. Durchaus empfehlenswert.
< snip >

Kenne nur \"Mein Kriegstagebuch\" von Ihm. Meine Kurzzusammenfassung wäre \"Ein Nazi der NAzi gebleiben ist erzählt seine Heldengeschichten\"

Na ja, seine Leistung war ja wirklich unerreicht. Die Sache mit der Braunen Sauce ist ein anderes Blatt. Aber man macht sich was vor wenn man glaubt alle Beteiligten kämen geläutert aus dem Krieg. Einige waren halt braun bis ins Mark.

[Hummingbird]

Das er ein Nazi ist hat mich nicht gestört beim lesen. Wenn man Geschichte immer nur aufbereitet konsumiert, bekommt man auch ein verzerrtes Bild.

Seine mit fanatischem Einsatz erbrachten militärischen Leistungen sind ja wirklich unumstritten. Sogar Günther Rall erwähnt in seinem „Flugbuch“, wie Rudel mit seiner Schlachtfliegergruppe an einem Tag in sieben Einsätzen, den Platz Malaia Wiski auf dem die III./JG 52 von einem sowjetischen Panzervorstoß überrollt wurde, freikämpfte.
Dann diese Geschichten von seinen Einsätzen mit dem Stuka als er einen frisch amputierten Beinstumpf hatte. Also seinen Einsatz sollte man nicht in Frage stellen.

Auf der Anderen Seite war er wohl ein ziemlicher Einzelgänger, was ihn nicht gerade zum geeigneten Führer macht. Sein fanatisches Sporttreiben hat ihn dazu getrieben, seine Untergebenen an der Ostfront beim Lauftraining unnötiger Gefahr auszusetzen. Als er einmal auf der falschen Seite der HKL abgeschossen wurde, hat er beim durchqueren eines Flusses auf der Flucht vor den Sowjets seinen Bordschützen ersaufen lassen.

[Ta152]

Ich will rudels Leistungen nicht schmälern, aber das Buch besteht nunmal nur aus Heldentaten von Ihm. Was mich vor allem aber stört ist das er die Geschehnisse vollkommen unreflektiert schildert. daher auch das "Nazi gebleiben".

Bei dem Vorfall bei dem Herschel ertrunken ist ist er nicht abgeschossen worden sondern hinter der HKL gelandet um die besatzung einer Notgelandeten Ju 87 zu retten. Sin Flugzeug ist aber im Matsch eingesackt und er konnte nicht mehr Starten.

[Hummingbird]

Ja, das stimmt. Unreflektiert ist er wirklich.
Man hat immer das Gefühl er versucht zu sagen wenn alle so gekämpft hätten wie ich, dann hätten wir nicht verloren.

Das er aus seinem Standpunkt kein Geheimnis macht und von diesem auch niemals abgewichen ist, macht das Buch aber auch zu einem interessanten Dokument darüber, wie die Gedankenwelt eines überzeugten aussah. Ziemlich hohl.

Zu einer gewissen Selbstgefälligkeit tendieren ja die meisten Autobiografien. Sie sind immer geprägt von persönlichen Perspektiven. Ich lese so was nicht um präzise historische Daten und Fakten zu sammeln, sondern eher um einen Einblick davon zu bekommen was das für Menschen waren. Das da auch Freaks dabei waren war halt so.

Zuletzt habe ich das Buch von Adolf Dickfeld gelesen. Seine politischen Ergüsse sind nur schwer zu ertragen. Dann sind ihm auch ein paar Grobe Fehler unterlaufen. Dennoch interessant wie ein recht einfältiger und bedingungslos gehorsamer Mensch diesen Krieg erlebt hat.

Das meiner Meinung nach beste das ich bis jetzt gelesen habe ist „Mein Flugbuch“ von Günther Rall.
Schade dass er wegen so einer saudummen Affäre in den Ruhestand befördert wurde. Aber so läuft das halt wenn es auf höchsten militärischen Positionen politisch wird.

[Ta152]

Gut ist das Buch von Rall vor allem wenn man vorher "Holt Hartmann vom Himmel" gelesen hat.

[Hummingbird]

“…diesem Bubi da“

Ich hab „Holt Hartmann vom Himmel“ nicht gelesen. Ich habe es in der Buchhandlung mal durchgeblättert und hab damals oberflächlich entschieden, dass ich dafür kein Geld ausgeben möchte.

Wie ist denn dein Eindruck von dem Buch?

[Ta152]

War eines der ersten Bücher der Art die ich gelesen habe und ist auch schon etwas länger her. Geviel mir aber sehr gut.

[Hummingbird]

Ich habe noch ein paar Interviews von Jagdfliegern.
Ich werde die mal hier posten, damit wir das konserviert haben.



Fangen wir mal an mit dem deutschen
General der Jagdflieger Adolf Galland:


Location: Galland's home in Remagen, Germany
Date: 1 October 1991
Interviewer: Don Caldwell
Also Present: Josef Buerschgens, a pilot in JG 26 1938-1940


Caldwell: What was your impression of JG 26 upon your arrival from JG 27?

Galland: JG 26 was a good fighter wing - I wouldn't say it was the best fighter wing, but it was a good fighter wing. The units were well trained; it had not been built up too fast, like other formations; it had been based in the west, in Cologne and Duesseldorf. Wing commanders were von Schleich, followed for a short time by Witt, and then Handrick. Handrick's story is a little bit tragic. You see, Goering didn't like him. He was in love with one of Goering's secretaries. His former wife was an aristocrat, a von Treuberg. Goering wasn't much impressed with his sporting abilities - he was the Funfkampfsieger in '36. I was acquainted with Handrick in Spain; he was commander of the fighter unit J/88, and he was an excellent fighter commander. It was not necessary in Spain for the commander of a unit to be airborne every day. It was absolutely unnecessary, because fights took place in small numbers, two, four, or six fighters, no more than one squadron. These did not need to be guided in the air. So Handrick in this situation did an excellent job in Spain, no question about it. It's disappointing to compare this with what he did in JG 26. He didn't fly at all; at the first opportunity, Goering fired him. The very first possibility came when Goering made Moelders and myself the first of the new generation of wing commanders. By the way, I didn't like this. I asked Goering to remain in my position as Gruppenkommandeur, but he refused. Moelders was very enthusiastic about his new position, and told me, "You want to be a new Richthofen - good luck. I prefer to be a Boelke." You know this story. JG 26 was a wing that in my opinion had a stronger foundation than JG 27, but these are personal impressions.

Caldwell: JG 26 seemed to have a very strong ground staff, that carried it all the way through the war - good serviceability records throughout.

Galland: That is absolutely right, and it is good that you mention this. The ground staff, even with officers of the reserve, was very, very strong. Viktor Causin, the Hauptmann beim Stabe, was one.

Buerschgens: Causin died very early - after the war I tried to make contact with him by telephone, but he was so upset, he didn't want to hear anything...
Caldwell: What can you say about Walter Horten, your Technical Officer?

Galland: He was a very curious man. He had his own ideas about displacement shooting. He reputedly had a special ability to do it. Everyone tried it; not all were successful. To do it right one really needed a gyroscopic sight. [demonstration with fixed Revi sight] With the old aircraft you had to go in advance - to lead the target. With a gyroscopic sight, which came in 1944, the entire assembly moved. The only thing you had to do was make this circle, which was expandable, fit exactly the span of the enemy aircraft. Then one had only to keep the sight on the target.

Caldwell: Horten claims that very little deflection shooting was taught in the prewar Luftwaffe. Is that correct?
Galland: This system came only very late in the war, after very many problems.

Caldwell: The gyroscopic sight, yes, but even the Revi could be used for deflection shooting just by estimating the distance within the sight.

Galland: Yes, except for the fact that at large angles the target is completely outside the sight; thus, it couldn't handle big leads. Also, the trajectories of the shells were not straight, and the sight was absolutely misleading. Horten was my TO for a long time. He always had problems with the engine and aircraft; he was flying only theoretically. But he was a good man and a good TO. He's still alive; his brother lives in Argentina. What else?

Caldwell: By the end of the Battle of Britain JG 26 had established a reputation as an "elite" unit, a reputation that it maintained (to Allied intelligence, at least) until the end of the war. How did you bring JG 26 to the head of the pack?

Galland: The original wing commanders and group commanders were excellent officers in peacetime, but were in no way the best leaders in air battles. Replacement of commanders was the necessary first step. From then on, I led every wing strength operation and mission. I knew exactly what was needed and what was possible in the big air battles.
As my next step I established, documented, and carried out a wing system for bomber escort which was well-known and well-liked as the best one possible. And in 1941, when we had to defend our bases and other targets against escorted RAF bomber formations, I developed fighter defense tactics which had the objective of attacking at one time and in the same air space with the largest force of fighters possible.

Caldwell: What was the Galland escort formation?

Galland: JG 26 was known as the most reliable wing for fighter escort, which was one of the most difficult tasks for a fighter wing. It needs a lot of discipline, and I know that all the bomber wings asked to be escorted by 26. So I think you can say that in 1940, at least, 26 was the best wing for escort. I organized this thing myself, because we didn't have any experience or rules to follow. I split up the escort between direct escort, which flies in direct contact with the bombers, mostly at the same speed, which was much too low. This was about one-third of the numbers - one Gruppe. They stayed with the bombers, and defended them - not the best way, but this was the way that the bombers wanted it. Better is the erwiderte escort ["detached" escort], which keeps the bomber stream in sight, but can go to one side, and if it finds the enemy, can go attack. Even so, after the combat, it must try to reestablish contact with the bombers after the fighting. And then we had the freie Jagd, which flew in advance of the bombers. This was many times the most successful escort. Of course, it was not seen by the bombers, and the bomber crews didn't trust it. I have discussed these tactics with the bombers many, many times, without success. They kept complaining to Goering, who listened to them. For more than forty minutes outside his train Goering blamed Moelders and myself:
.........."What do you want?"
.........."I can't even slow down to the bomber speed, without sacrificing all my mobility."
.........."What? You have the best fighter in the world!"
And this was the occasion that, when Goering asked Moelders and myself what he could do to improve the capability of our wings, Moelders wanted his wing equipped with the DB 601N, and I said I wanted a wing of Spitfires. Of course, that was the end of the discussion.

Caldwell: Why, exactly, did you say that?

Galland: Why? He said we had the best fighter in the world. I said that the Spitfire was better able to slow down, because of its lower wing loading. It was also better able to turn at lower speeds. Our advantage was not in turning, but in flying straight ahead, diving, and climbing. Our turns were not tight enough. So when he said, "We have the best fighter in the world! Don't blame me!" I tried to tell him otherwise.

Caldwell: You already had some Messerschmitts with DB 601Ns in 26, didn't you? How many?

Galland: I had many special aircraft, with special armament.

Caldwell: In the Battle of Britain? I thought your special armament came in 1941. Could you describe some of these aircraft? Were they 109Es?

Galland: I don't know if it was the E model. You can see it in the photographs.

Caldwell: That was in 1941, I believe, that you experimented with your armament, since you felt that the firepower of the Bf 109F was too light. I thought that the armament of the E was quite effective - the British certainly thought so.
Buerschgens: The E had a good armament. It had two cannons, which fired shells that exploded when they hit. You could see them.

Caldwell: Did you fly the same aircraft throughout the Battle, once you got the E-4/N with the DB 601N engine?

Galland: It was not the same aircraft - I changed aircraft.

Caldwell: During the course of the Battle of Britain Reichsmarschall Goering lost confidence in the Jagdwaffe - completely and permanently. The conventional explanations for this are well known, but seem inadequate. Could Goering's bitter feelings toward his fighter pilots have been the result of a suspicion that victory claims were being deliberately overstated?

Galland: Your theory is almost correct, but incomplete. I must defend the really overstated claims of the fighters by telling you that there was an enormous difference between the first claims, right after the mission, and finally confirmed victories. Goering and most of his staff, however, calculated and assumed always the worst for the enemy and the most optimistic facts for our side.
Goering overestimated the capabilities and possibilities of the Luftwaffe. He also was incapable of admitting that fundamental mistakes had been made in planning, equipping, and setting it up. The slow medium bombers had very poor self-defense capabilities. The Zerstoerer, which were specialized for bomber escort, failed completely and themselves had to be protected by fighters. Penetration of the bomber formations was therefore limited by the range of the single-engine fighters - without drop tanks. Knowing more-or-less all these insufficiencies, Goering and his staff continued the Battle of Britain, and made the fundamental mistake of leaving Fighter Command and switching targets to London.

Caldwell: What were your feelings when you were named General of the Fighter Arm?

Galland: In December 1941, when I was taken away from my fighter wing, Goering was in Paris, and I could influence him to come over and say a few words. Goering was full of praise for JG 26 on that occasion. I may still have the speech [located and included as Appendix 1].

Caldwell: Did you look after JG 26, once you got to Berlin?

Galland: I had such strong ties to JG 26 that every time I had the occasion I went back to JG 26. I had problems when I left 26. I wasn't prepared; I didn't have a successor. We had problems. I knew Schoepfel was not the right man. He was a nice guy, but not a strong leader. Many people have told me that the break was too sharp. The next one, Priller, was better. He was the aggressive type. So I believe, without polishing my own shoes, that it depends to a great extent on the leader - a great, great extent. If the guy on top is strong, this filters through to the last pilot.

Caldwell: What were the most important functions of the General of the Fighter Arm?

Galland: This is my reconstructed War Diary. I wrote this immediately after the war, as a prisoner of war in England, and it was not taken from me. I used it in my interrogation, which resulted in the so-called Galland Report. Do you know it?
Caldwell: By Squadron Leader Whitten? Is that the one? I have a copy of it! I found it at Maxwell Air Force Base.

Galland: Good! It is very important. It was the basis for my book.
Caldwell: What records did you have with you when you wrote your book?

Galland: None. I got documents when I asked for them, but mainly documents from the other side. It was an excellent situation. I had this very capable and nice man Whitten to check everything, and he did everything possible to keep my work going. I think this is an excellent report; it is also in Freiburg.

Caldwell: Were you able to keep any of your personal documents - your Flugbuecher? Your Abschussberichte?
Galland: No; I had nothing with me except cigars - perhaps 800 cigars. Here is a list of my duties; is it OK if I give it to you in German?

Caldwell: Yes indeed. [See Appendix 2.] Was your office part of the RLM, or the OKL?

Galland: My office, when I took over from Moelders, was in Berlin, Lindenstrasse Nr. 3. This had been the building of the Social Democrat newspaper Vorwaerts! [Forward!] which I think was a good name for the fighter office. So I took this over. Here was located only that staff which could work without immediate contact with the front - writing official instructions, etc. The operational staff was in the train Robinson, which was the headquarters of the Air Force. Here I had a special rail car. Later, when we had too many files, we had in addition to the car, one wooden building, near the train. We didn't move very often; I remember one important move, to Vinnitsa in the Ukraine. Both Goering and Hitler had moved there.
Caldwell: So your office was part of the OKL?
Buerschgens: The OKL was in Berlin.

Caldwell: But if you drew an organizational chart... I decided earlier that I couldn't sort it out, so in my book I just said, "High Command", or "Berlin".

Galland: Only part of it was in Berlin. Of course, the Quartermaster was always in Berlin.

Caldwell: I'd like to ask a few questions about the period of the invasion. How closely did your office follow the operations or the serviceability of the individual Geschwader on the Invasion front? Who decided when to remove them for re-equipment and resting? Was it your office?

Galland: No, I didn't do that.

Caldwell: It's taken a long time to piece the data together, but it appears that nearly every Gruppe on the invasion front suffered so much damage that it had to be withdrawn to Germany for re-equipment - except the First and Third Gruppen of JG 26, which remained on the invasion front from the first day to the last. I was wondering if you knew of this?
Galland: No, the times were too turbulent. However, the majority of the Gruppen had been training for the Big Blow [der grosse Schlag], and were absolutely not trained for any battle such as the invasion - against such a majority, nothing could be done. The Allied High Command was looking for air dominion - not just air superiority, but air dominion. The relation was no less than twenty to one. So we couldn't put any fighters over the invasion front at all, because Allied aircraft were just hanging, hanging over our airfields. Any movement was hit immediately.

Caldwell: Der grosse Schlag was, of course, a product of your office.

Galland: Der grosse Schlag was my own idea, after I was unable to get the 262 for fighter missions. I said, the only opportunity was to bring an immense number of modern aircraft into one area for combat. We were already forced to fly in so-called Gefechtsverbaende, which were formed from three or four wings. Of course, to assemble such a number of fighters takes time, during which the fighters are vulnerable to attack; many times, they were attacked. But we had also the Sturmjaeger, not the Rammjaeger. The Rammjaeger were born out of the wilde Sau, and I rejected this ramming theory completely, by arguing that if you are going to approach a bomber formation to such a close distance, then you can shoot two down, and still have a chance to escape, instead of ramming and being lost.
Buerschgens: You made a good comment, sir, in the latest Jaegerblatt. It is very, very instructive, and just as you said - the difference between Sturm and Ramm. Caldwell should study it. Hajo Herrmann - he was the man that wanted to ram. It came up in the Jaegerblatt again, and the General had to say something against it.

Caldwell: I'll certainly read the article in Jaegerblatt when I get it, and get the benefit of the feelings you express there. [See Appendix 3.] I have one last question: When did you know that Germany had lost the war?
Galland: Very, very early. I had open discussions with Jeschonnek about this, when we were preparing the spring offensive in 1942. Every reserve in Germany was to become active in this offensive. We had to stop our training, by taking out every instructor - fighters, bombers, and especially transports. All were made operational. And Jeschonnek said that since we were destroying our training capabilities, if we did not win this offensive against Russia, then the war is lost.

Caldwell: Jeschonnek said that?

Galland: Jeschonnek said that - officially. Of course, one could do nothing but follow this order, and sacrifice the training organization. Jeschonnek took the consequences and committed suicide. But the war was continued. And the offensive didn't even take place, because the Russians advanced their own. From this time on, I knew that at the least, this war could not be won. But we did fight. We fought because we felt we had to, for better conditions. Unconditional surrender was the very worst thing. I always hoped to split the Russians from the Western Allies. It was our hope in the dark. If the Western Allies had said, "We agree to certain conditions", the war would have been shorter.

Caldwell: Even in the most favorable circumstances for Germany, what effect could the Me 262 have had on the war?

Galland: In the case of the 262, there is no question that many mistakes were made. The design and development of the plane were delayed for a year by an order of Hitler, who wanted to accelerate short-range developments and cancel long-range projects. But this was completely wrong in the case of the 262. Hitler had little understanding of the Air Force at all, and for air combat - none at all. He couldn't think in three dimensions. He was an army man. If everything had been done perfectly, we would have gained 4-5 months development. We would have gained 2-3 months production. We could have had about 600-800 Me 262s ready for combat, on permanent bases, by the end of 1943. This would have delayed the invasion, of course, without question, and would have changed the air dominion of the Allies, but the result would have been that the [Western] Allies would have moved more slowly, and the Russians would have come farther, certainly to the Rhine. There would have been more destruction. And so ultimately, this order of Hitler's that was completely wrong had a good result.
The Big Blow was the replacement for the 262. I finally won Goering's assent and convinced him not to throw every possible fighter against the enemy every day, which was the rule up to the time of the invasion. Every time, we sent this full force up to fight; there was no reserve, no time to recover, no training, and finally I got permission to build up this fighter reserve, which came up to 2000 prop fighters. These forces were not trained to fight on a battlefront, like in France; but they were sent there on order of Hitler immediately, and as you know, they didn't arrive, they missed the airfields, the airfields had been taken over by the enemy. Terrible disorganization; hundreds and hundreds of aircraft were lost every day by accident.

Buerschgens: And at that time, how was the training? How many hours had the average pilot?

Galland: Ah, it was very short, very short. We had plenty of planes; up to 3000 single-engined fighter planes per month. But we didn't have fuel. And we didn't have time. But most important, we didn't have the fuel for training. So we had to bring them into combat with 40 hours total flying time. And our intention was to train them in combat, on the spot, which was difficult at that time. For this work, we especially needed the experienced pilots; we couldn't leave it to the youngsters.

Caldwell: Were some of the problems on the invasion front due to lack of planning or lack of execution on the part of Luftflotte 3? Were the airfields in France ready?

Galland: They were ready; they were ready. There was no lack of airfields; there were many, many prepared and semi-prepared airfields. But they were not known; they were not visible; they were not found. They were under fire, and were controlled by the Allies completely. Completely. Another problem at the time was the bad weather. We didn't have bad weather capabilities. For the same reasons - fuel and time.

Caldwell: After the fighters were pulled back to Germany, and the strength of the units was built back up, you tried again to build your reserve for the Big Blow. But this time, the aircraft were taken away for Bodenplatte, and put under Peltz. Did you know this was going to happen in advance? How did you find out about it?

Galland: I didn't know of this intention until about ten days before the start of the Ardennes offensive. And I was completely against it. I hated the idea of starting an offensive in the West. I thought we should fight with everything we had against the East, and open the West. I told everybody this, and was looking for people of the same opinion. And I was warned that this could bring me jailing or death. Because at this time, speaking against an order of Hitler was the most dangerous thing you could do. You shouldn't even think it. I learned that Peltz was preparing Bodenplatte; it was impossible for me to influence this at all. I saw it, and I was terrified at what they had in mind. But it turned out to be even worse than I had thought, because it was so poorly prepared that the German antiaircraft shot down a lot of our planes whose courses were over the fields of the V-2s. Terrible, terrible. And this was absolutely the end of the Luftwaffe.
















Appendix 1
Reichsmarschall Göring’s speech upon the departure of Kommodore Galland from JG 26
5 December 1941
I am pleased today to be able to visit here on the Channel coast the Geschwader that has maintained the watch against England alone, together with Jagdgeschwader 2, while the main forces of the Luftwaffe have had to be employed in the East. The successes of the Geschwader have been great; its losses have been heavy, but unavoidable. The constant duty, the incessant missions call for the utmost effort from the pilots and ground personnel. I intentionally left this outstanding Jagdgeschwader in the West. Certainly I know that this Geschwader would have scored an enormous number of victories if I had employed it in the East. But the number of victories a Geschwader has gained is not as important as which enemy they have been scored against, and I know that the struggle against the British enemy remains much more difficult than that against the Russians. I was only able to uncover the western front so completely because I had two such outstanding Geschwader to leave behind -- and above all, this one of yours. Only this gave me the ability to send the other Geschwader to the East. Thus you are largely if indirectly responsible for our winning air superiority in the East so quickly. I know that it is very difficult to come to grips with the enemy here. He is not far away. He can appear anywhere without a great deal of warning, and it is thus not just the bravery of individuals, but organization and leadership that are necessary for decisive success. I am fully aware that - in addition to the bravery and readiness for action of the Geschwader - your great success in preventing the British from undertaking any more ambitious tasks can be credited to the leadership of the Geschwader.
I know that each of you is proud to have had a chance to fight under such a Kommodore, and I am also aware that today the Geschwader must suffer perhaps its most bitter and difficult hour, since I must take your Kommodore away to place him over the entire Fighter Arm. But only the best man, the most experienced leader, can rise to become the head of the entire fighter force. Today the Fuehrer has promoted your Kommodore to Oberst, and has ordered him to take over the positions of General der Jagdflieger and Inspekteur der Jagdflieger. But I expect that this Geschwader will continue to fight in the manner that your bold and outstanding commander has shown you, and that his spirit will continue to influence you.
I consider this Geschwader today to be the very best one that I have. Do continue to hold up this honor and this distinction! Winter is coming, and your difficulties will increase. Nevertheless, you must not let up. The British must know, regardless of where else we are fighting, that if they fly over the Channel they will meet strong and resolute opponents whose resistance will make further penetrations impossible. It doesn't matter whether there are many Geschwader on watch, or just a few. The enemy must always encounter the strongest resistance.
I recall with deep sorrow your comrades who have fallen in battle. But I know that for you the words hold true: "Forward over the graves!" We must and we will be victorious. And the fact that the British know that they can accomplish nothing here, even though the Luftwaffe is concentrating on tasks in the East, has affected them deeply. It has been demonstrated to them that it is not the numbers that are decisive, but the men, and the bravery of each individual.
With all my heart, I wish you more victories and further success! And I am certain that you will obtain them, if you approach your duties to the Fuehrer, the German people, and the Reich with the spirit your Kommodore has demonstrated.




Appendix 2

Written in England, 1945-46
1. Inspection of the operational and training units by the General and his inspectors.
2. Direct, unhindered liaison between the operational units and the upper leadership.
3. Evaluation of tactical and technical experiences of the operational units.
4. Preparation of Tactical Regulations for all missions and fronts.
5. Supervision of new personnel and new equipment in liaison with the Quartermaster General.
6. Proposals for the organization of systems for fighter control.
7. Proposals for the organization of new operational units.
8. Recommendations of personnel to fill all leadership positions in the Fighter Arm.
9. Supervision of training, especially operational training.
10. Control over assignment of replacements.
11. Recommendations for allocation of replacement aircraft (aircraft allotment plans and re-equipment plans).
12. Technical and tactical evaluation of new armament and equipment for day fighters, night fighters, and Zerstoerer.
13. Recommendations for the development of the air reporting service, the ground control organization, and communications equipment.
14. Evaluation of operational experience with communications equipment, in cooperation with the General Nachrichtenfuehrer [Gen. Martini].
15. Scheduling and supervision of unit training.
16. Maintenance of a card index of all flying personnel in day and night fighters.
17. Recommendations for awards of the Ritterkreuz.
18. Direct supply of the Fighter Arm with published regulations and instructional material.
19. Direct supply of the Fighter Arm with new or delayed equipment.
20. Advice to the upper leadership on all matters concerning day and night fighters.
21. Cooperation in topical matters with the Chef T.L.R., Ruestungs Stab [Speer]; Chef der personellen Ruestung; General der Fliegerausbildung [Gen. von Massow]; Kommando der Erprobungsstellen, etc.
22. Special duties assigned from time to time; e.g., the Channel breakthrough of the battleships, fighter control in Sicily, the evaluation of tactics for the RVT, formation of the fighter reserve, etc.

Appendix 3
- Jaegerblatt Vol. XL (2), p.17 (1991)
I have the following comments on this most regrettable and irresponsible affair, based on my own experience:
In the first half of 1944 Major von Kornatzki proposed ramming tactics against American heavy bombers to me in my capacity as General der Jagdflieger. At that time I was able to convince him that ramming was unnecessary, because fighters that were able to approach very near the bombers were absolutely certain to shoot them down, and then had a chance for their own survival. Subsequently the very successful "Sturmjaeger tactics and technique" evolved from this original ramming idea. It is thus partially correct to call von Kornatzki the "spiritual father" of the Sturmjaeger (not the Rammjaeger).
In the second half of 1944 Oberst Hajo Herrmann raised the issue of ramming tactics with me once more. To my question as to the role he would assign himself on such a ramming mission, he said that he had ruled out a personal role as leader of the ramming unit in the air.
I opposed the ramming, or "self-sacrifice" mission, using the same arguments I had used with von Kornatzki, but I was duty bound to inform Goering, who shared my attitude. Shortly thereafter Goering confirmed that Hitler also opposed self-sacrifice missions for the German military. For the rest of my period of service as General der Jagdflieger, talk of ramming, or self-sacrifice missions, was banished from the table. The Sturmjaeger, however, continued to carry out successfully their costly, difficult duty.
I agree... that it is our duty to answer these questions... as to the true course of events, re-evaluating the evidence from today's point of view.

[Hummingbird]

...und nochmal:

Adolf Galland

By Colin D. Heaton for World War II Magazine

When historians speak of pilots and the history of air combat, certain names invariably come up sooner or later--Manfred von Richthofen, Edward Mannock, René Fonck, Erich Hartmann, Alexander Pokryshkin, Johnny Johnson, Dick Bong... and Adolf Galland. Galland was the youngest general grade officer of either side in World War II, and at age 29 he was more competent in aerial combat, strategy and tactics than many of the experts nearly twice his age. Galland fought a hard battle against his superiors on the ground, which made the danger in the air inviting, almost welcome. Adolf Hitler and Luftwaffe Chief Hermann Göring, who were always trying to find fault and place the blame on others for their own failures, began pointing fingers at the fighter pilots. Was it not they who failed to stop the death and destruction delivered by Allied bombers? Was it not the fighter pilots who demanded more of the resources and new technology, yet produced the least results? Göring betrayed his pilots and publicly denounced them as cowards, provoking the Fighters' Revolt in January 1945.
Galland, well known and admired by his enemies across the English Channel as an honorable and chivalrous foe, found an enemy he could not vanquish. The consummate warrior was engaged in heated battle with absolutist politicians and demagogues, who considered honor and chivalry a weakness. He eventually returned to where he had risen, the cockpit of a fighter plane, but as a lieutenant general leading a squadron. As a fighter pilot he was credited with 104 aerial victories.
Galland survived the political intrigues and combat of both the Spanish Civil War and World War II, only to find himself in South America working for Argentinian dictator Juan Perón, who at least appreciated his expert knowledge and relied on his honesty.
A holder of the Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves, Swords and Diamonds, Galland died in 1995 at the age of 83. He granted this interview in 1994.

WWII: General, please describe your childhood and family life.

Galland: I was born in Westerholt, a small village in Westphalia on March 19, 1912, so I am now 81 years old. I was the second son, Fritz being the oldest, then myself, Wilhelm and Paul. My father was an administrator of private lands and properties, and he was very fair, but harsh. We had the best mother in the world, and during the war she used to pray for fog to cover our bases so we could not fly.

WWII: Two of your brothers were combat pilots--which ones were they?

Galland: Yes, that would be Wilhelm and Paul, the youngest. Paul was the first to die in combat, shot down and killed in 1942, and Wilhelm was killed a year later. Paul had 17 victories, and Wilhelm had 54 and the Knight's Cross. Fritz was an attorney.

WWII: What developed your interest in flying?

Galland: Right from the beginning, as a boy, my greatest interest had always been flying. I started building models of aircraft when I was 12 years old, and when I was 16 I flew in gliders. Over the course of the next three years I became a successful glider pilot, my entire purpose being to study and become a commercial airline pilot. However, my father was not very enthusiastic about this idea at all. This was my dream since 1925, and he had no understanding of my dream.

WWII: How did you become a founding member of the Condor Legion, the German pilots who flew for General Francisco Franco's forces (Nationalists) during the Spanish Civil War?

Galland: After one year of training as a commercial pilot I was strongly "invited" to join the "Black Air Force" (the clandestine air force Germany was training prior to Adolf Hitler's rise to power). This was in the remarkable year of 1933, and I already had my first pilot's license. My coinciding training as a fighter pilot helped immensely with the commercial pilot's courses, but by 1937 I had already become a "volunteer" in the Condor Legion. This activity was liked very much by all of the young fighter pilots. I did have a small problem after a crash in a Focke-Wulf Fw-44 biplane in 1935 while in training, and a colleague, future Luftwaffe ace Dieter Hrabak, had one the following week due to bad weather. I had modified the plane beyond normal limits and slammed into the ground. Everyone thought I was dead, and I was in a coma for three days. My parents came and stayed with me until I came out of it. I had serious skull fractures, a broken nose, which never looked the same again, and I was partially blinded in my left eye from glass fragments, so I still had to pass the physical. My CO (commanding officer), Major Rheitel, a flier from the First World War, assisted me in my goal to return to flying. So, I continued to fly, but a year later I crashed an Arado Ar-68 and again went into the hospital, where they pulled my old file stating that I was grounded. Well, with many days in the hospital again I memorized every letter and number in every possible sequence on the eye chart for my next examination. You know, to this day I still have some of the glass from the first crash in my eye.

WWII: When did you get to Spain?

Galland: We left for Spain with the Union Travel Society, ostensibly bound for Genoa on a tramp steamer. After 12 days we arrived in El Ferrol on May 7, 1937. I had been to Spain before with Lufthansa and looked forward to returning. In our group of men there were many future aces and leaders fighting for Franco's Nationalists, such as Hannes Trautloft, Wilhelm Balthasar, Günther Lützow, Eduard Neumann and Hajo Herrmann, who flew Junkers Ju-52s. I became a squadron leader in the Legion Fighter Group, and we were equipped with Heinkel He-51 biplanes. Lützow commanded a squadron of the new Messerschmitt Bf-109Bs.

WWII: What was the Condor Legion's strength in Spain?

Galland: Only four squadrons each of fighters and bombers and a reconnaissance squadron. We had four heavy and two light AA batteries, and signals units, but we never exceeded around 5,600 men. Generalleutnant Hugo Sperrle was the first CO of the Legion in Spain, and he personally led a flight of bombers against ships at Cartagena.

WWII: What was your first engagement in Spain?

Galland: Brunete, where we sent every plane we had against the Republican forces in July 1937. The Madrid front was controlled by the Communists, equipped with modern fighters--Russian Polikarpov I-16 Ratas. We bombed and strafed and engaged Loyalist fighters while our artillery pounded their ground positions. Finally we won, and Franco's forces were safe from a disastrous defeat. We also performed dive-bombing missions and created new tactics in ground support.

WWII: Is it true you often flew in swimming trunks and shirtless?

Galland: Yes, I flew over 300 missions as a leader, and due to the great heat of the Spanish summer we often flew with hardly any clothes on. That was another innovation we created.

WWII: Weren't you also part of the development of some innovative weapons?

Galland: Yes, we filled drop tanks and drums with petrol and oil, using them to great effect. I also thought about having the squadron quartered on a train. Since we always had to move from one base to another, that way we would be always mobile. The Spanish Civil War was much like the First World War, not static as far as the air war went, but very fast-moving. We used the trains effectively, the aircraft being flown to their new bases as needed.

WWII: This was the time you met Werner Mölders, wasn't it?

Galland: Yes, I was recalled to Germany in 1938, and he was my replacement. We became good friends and remained so until his death in 1941. He was a good man, very strict with his own conduct and expected the same of his men. He was a wonderful man.

WWII: All the pilots I spoke with who knew him had only the highest praise for his leadership ability and compassion.

Galland: He was the best man the Luftwaffe had, and he also did well in Spain, shooting down 14 Loyalist aircraft. He went on to have 114 victories and won the Diamonds [to the Knights Cross].

WWII: You were decorated by the Franco government before you left. What awards did they give you?

Galland: I was awarded the Spanish Cross in Gold with Diamonds, only awarded 12 times in Spanish history.

WWII: After Spain, you and Mölders began creating the fighter arm in Germany. How did that go?

Galland: Mölders and I were the first fighter leaders of the new age, appointed as wing Kommodores. Mölders very much liked having that distinction from the beginning. As for myself, I was unhappy because I wanted to be a fighter pilot. However, that was the order and we had to follow it.

WWII: Tell us about the beginning of World War II. What was your first combat assignment?

Galland: I flew in Poland in the Henschel Hs-123, performing ground-attack missions and proving the dive-bombing concept, until October 1, 1939. That was when I won the Iron Cross. Then I was assigned to Jagdgeschwader (fighter wing) 27 (JG.27) under Oberst Max Ibel, which I did not like, as it did not allow for much combat flying. I did get away every now and then, however, and this was during the French invasion. I finally got my first kill on May 12, 1940, when Gustav Roedel and I went on a mission. I shot down two Hawker Hurricanes on two missions. I had about a dozen victories by the end of the French campaign.

WWII: What was your next arena?

Galland: Oh, the Battle of Britain, of course! That was a tough fight, where I was assigned to JG.26 Schlageter. I became Gruppenkommandeur of III/JG.26 and shot down two fighters in my first mission with them. I was promoted to Major on July 18 and received the Ritterkreuz (Knights Cross) on August 22, 1940, for my 17th victory. I then succeeded Gotthard Handrick as Kommodore of JG.26 and received the Oak Leaves from Hitler on September 25 for my 40th victory. On November 1, I scored my 50th kill and was promoted to Oberstleutnant (lieutenant colonel). In December I became a full colonel.

WWII: What was the real story behind the Mickey Mouse insignia painted on the fuselage of your fighter plane?

Galland: We started this in Spain, and when I painted it on my Me-109E in JG.26 it was holding a hatchet and smoking a cigar, which I loved. But after the war I had to give cigars up.

WWII: Is it true that you had the only cigar lighterequipped Messerschmitt in the entire Luftwaffe?

Galland: I think so, plus a holder for it if I was on oxygen. It created quite a controversy, I can tell you.

WWII: Describe the first time you were shot down, General.

Galland: This was on June 21, 1941, when JG.26 was stationed at Pas de Calais. We had attacked some Bristol Blenheim bombers and I shot down two, but some Supermarine Spitfires were on me and they shot my plane up. I had to belly-land in a field until picked up later, and I went on another mission after lunch. On this mission I shot down number 70, but I did something stupid. I was following the burning Spitfire down when I was bounced and shot up badly. My plane was on fire, and I was wounded. I tried to bail out, but the canopy was jammed shut from enemy bullets. So I tried to stand in the cockpit, forcing the canopy open with my back as the plane screamed toward earth. I had opened it and almost cleared the 109 when my parachute harness became entangled on the radio aerial. I fought it with everything I had until I finally broke free, my parachute opening just as I hit the ground. I was bleeding from my head and arm, plus I had damaged my ankle on landing. I was taken to safety by some Frenchmen.

WWII: You survived being shot down twice in one day. How did it affect you?

Galland: I was worried that my wounds might ground me for a long time--that was my greatest concern, not to mention I had lost two airplanes.

WWII: Tell us the story of your friendship with the legless British ace, Wing Commander Douglas Bader.

Galland: He was shot down during a dogfight on August 9. One of his artificial legs was left in the Spitfire when he bailed out, and the other was smashed after he landed. I made a request through the International Red Cross, and the British were offered safe passage for the plane to drop replacement artificial legs. Well, they dropped them after they bombed my air base. Bader was fitted and sent to a prison camp. We remained friends until his death a few years ago.

WWII: How did you become General der Jagdflieger ("general of fighters") in 1941?

Galland: Ernst Udet had committed suicide on November 17 of that year, and Werner Mölders was coming back from Russia for the funeral. His Heinkel He-111 struck some telephone wires, and he was killed in the crash. At the time of his death he was acting as general of fighters, holding the rank of Oberst (colonel). After the funeral of both men, Göring called me aside and made me Mölders' successor, still as a colonel. This was possible in the German military, but not so in your country's armed forces. Gerhard Schoepfel became Kommodore of my JG.26, and I went to Berlin. I had already been awarded the Swords to the Knight's Cross, and upon my arrival in January 28, 1942, I saw Hitler for the third time when he awarded me the Brillanten (Diamonds).

WWII: You commanded the fighter cover for the famous Channel dash by the battle cruisers Scharnhorst and Gneisenau and the heavy cruiser Prinz Eugen in February 1942. How did that work?

Galland: I organized a rotation of various fighter wings to fly top cover for the ships, an air umbrella to protect them from British air attacks. There was some damage from mines, but the Luftwaffe fighters shot down many British planes, and not a single major hit was made on the warships. That was a great success story that made me proud.

WWII: So you were still placed in a desk job?

Galland: Yes, and later in 1942 I was promoted to General, then General Leutnant when I was 301Ž2 years old.

WWII: That is remarkable.

Galland: Yes, but I was still unhappy about it. I would have rather continued flying.

WWII: Well, most of the pilots believed that your appointment as general of fighters was the best thing that could have happened to the Luftwaffe, except perhaps if Göring could have been dismissed.

Galland: Well, it was a big responsibility, and you could never get what you needed. Our fighter force was small, and we received no understanding from Göring.

WWII: Speaking of Göring, you had the most contact with him of all the pilots, and you understood his problems. What did you think of him personally?

Galland: Yes, he had many problems, but he was basically an intelligent man and well educated, from the aristocracy. He had many weak points in his life, and he was always under pressure from Hitler, yet he never contradicted him or corrected him on any point. That was where he made his greatest mistakes. This weakness increased as the war dragged on, along with his drug addiction, until he was nothing. As far as our Luftwaffe was concerned, he was even less and should have been replaced.

WWII: Isn't it true that regardless of Göring's position the fighter pilots looked to you for leadership most of the time?

Galland: Yes, that was true.

WWII: What were your impressions of Hitler, since you spent months in his company and knew him very well.

Galland: Yes, I did spend months around him, speaking and having meetings, but I don't think anyone ever really knew Adolf Hitler. I was not very impressed with him. The first time I met him was after Spain when we were summoned to the Reichschancellery. There was Hitler, short, gray-faced and not very strong, and he spoke with a crisp language. He did not allow us to smoke, nor did he offer us anything to drink, nothing like that. This impression was strengthened every year I knew him as his mistakes mounted and cost German lives, the mistakes that Göring should have brought to his attention. Other officers did, and they were relieved, but at least they did the right thing and voiced their objections. For Göring to willingly follow along was a terrible situation for me personally.

WWII: So you feel Hitler should have replaced Göring as head of the Luftwaffe long before things became terminal?

Galland: Sure, if Hitler cared, but who would take Göring's place and stand up to Hitler, to do what was right? People were not lining up for the job, I can tell you. Hitler was unable to think in three dimensions, and he had a very poor understanding when it came to the Luftwaffe, as with the U-boat service. He was strictly a landsman.

WWII: Well, of all the men you led and are friends with today, are there any who simply stood out as great leaders apart from their records as aces?

Galland: Oh, my, that would be a long list, and you also know most of them. Of all the names you could mention, I think perhaps the greatest leader was still Mölders. All the rest are still very good friends of mine, but we are old men now, and life is not as fast as it was in the cockpit. However, as their leader I also made many mistakes. I could have done better. I was young and inexperienced with life, I guess. It is very easy to look back retrospectively and criticize yourself; however, at that time it was very difficult. My situation was that I had to fight with Göring and Hitler in order to accomplish what they wished, but without their support, if that makes any sense. Göring was a thorn in my side, and Hitler simply destroyed our country and others without any regard for the welfare of others.

WWII: What led to the Fighters' Revolt in January 1945?

Galland: Basically, it was the problems we were having with Göring, and the fact that he was blaming us, the fighter pilots, for the bombings and the losing of the war. All of the senior Kommodores brought their grievances to me, and we chose a spokesman to represent them. I sat on the panel and arranged for the meeting with Göring.

WWII: Your spokesman was Günther Lützow?

Galland: Yes, Lützow was a great leader and a true knight, a gentleman. When they all sat down with Göring, he told Göring that if he interrupted, which he always did so that he could show his importance, nothing would get accomplished. Lützow, Johannes Steinhoff and myself had voiced our grievances many times, but since I was not invited to this meeting, Hannes Trautloft along with Lützow kept me informed as to their recommending that Göring step down for the good of the service. Well, I was fired as general of fighters, Steinhoff was banished from Germany and sent to Italy, and Göring told Lützow that he was going to be shot for high treason.

WWII: What was the atmosphere like, and what were the Kommodores' opinions of the meeting?

Galland: Well, Göring knew that he did not have their loyalty, and we knew that we could not count on Berlin doing anything to help us, so we were alone, as we always were. At least now it was in the open, no pretenses.

WWII: What do you recall about the death of ace Walter Nowotny, and do you feel that his death had any impact on Germany's Messerschmitt Me-262 jet fighter program?

Galland: I had been telling Hitler for over a year, since my first flight in an Me-262, that only Focke Wulf Fw-190 fighter production should continue in conventional aircraft, to discontinue the Me-109, which was outdated, and to focus on building a massive jet-fighter force. I was in East Prussia for a preview of the jet, which was fantastic, a totally new development. This was 1943, and I was there with Professor Willy Messerschmitt and other engineers responsible for the development. The fighter was almost ready for mass production at that time, and Hitler wanted to see a demonstration. When the 262 was brought out for his viewing at Insterburg, and I was standing there next to him, Hitler was very impressed. He asked the professor, "Is this aircraft able to carry bombs?" Well, Messerschmitt said, "Yes, my Führer, it can carry for sure a 250-kilogram bomb, perhaps two of them." In typical Hitler fashion, he said "Well, nobody thought of this! This is the Blitz (lightning) bomber I have been requesting for years. No one thought of this. I order that this 262 be used exclusively as a Blitz bomber, and you, Messerschmitt, have to make all the necessary preparations to make this feasible." This was really the beginning of the misuse of the 262, as five bomber wings were supposed to be equipped with the jet. These bomber pilots had no fighter experience, such as combat flying or shooting, which is why so many were shot down. They could only escape by outrunning the fighters in pursuit. This was the greatest mistake surrounding the 262, and I believe the 262 could have been made operational as a fighter at least a year and a half earlier and built in large enough numbers so that it could have changed the air war. It would most certainly not have changed the final outcome of the war, for we had already lost completely, but it would have probably delayed the end, since the Normandy invasion on June 6, 1944, would probably not have taken place, at least not successfully if the 262 had been operational. I certainly think that just 300 jets flown daily by the best fighter pilots would have had a major impact on the course of the air war. This would have, of course, prolonged the war, so perhaps Hitler's misuse of this aircraft was not such a bad thing after all. But about Nowotny....

WWII: Yes, how did you come to choose him as commander of the first jet-fighter wing in history?

Galland: I was looking for the right type of pilot, someone daring and successful who could lead by example of his courage and determination, and Walter Nowotny had all of these qualities. The jet was being tested by some pilots at Achmer and other places, so after Walter finished as an instructor at the fighter pilots school in France, he was detailed to take over the jets and train pilots. We wanted to prove to Hitler that the jet was indeed a fighter, and to show what we believed would be the best results possible. This unit became known as Kommando Nowotny in July of 1944.

WWII: What were the initial results?

Galland: Fairly good. They had shot down a few bombers, and losses had been minimal, as long as top cover was flown by conventional aircraft to protect the jets on takeoffs and landings. American fighters would hang around to try and catch them at those weak moments.

WWII: What brought you to Achmer on November 8?

Galland: I arrived on that day to inspect the unit and write a report, plus I spoke with Nowotny that evening, and he was going to give me his pilots' reports concerning their actions. The next day, a flight of B-17 bombers was reported heading our way, so the unit took off, about six jets, if I remember correctly, in the first wave, then another. The Fw-190Ds were waiting on the runway to take off and cover their return, engaging the Allied fighters that were sure to follow. I was in the operations shack, where we monitored the radio transmissions and could get an idea of what was happening. Several bombers were called out as shot down, and Nowotny radioed that he was approaching. The flight leader on the ground, Hans Dortenmann, requested permission to take off to assist, but Nowotny said no, to wait. The defensive anti-aircraft battery opened fire on a few (North American P-51) Mustangs that approached the field, but they were chased away, from what I could understand, and the jets were coming in. One Me-262 had been shot down, and Nowotny reported one of his engines was damaged. He was flying on the right engine alone, which made him vulnerable. I stepped outside to watch his approach to the field, when an enemy fighter pulled away not far from us. I heard the sound of a jet engine, and we saw this 262 coming down through the light clouds at low altitude, rolling slightly and then hitting the ground. The explosions rocked the air, and only a column of black smoke rose from behind the trees. We took off in a car and reached the wreckage, and it was Nowotny's plane. After sifting through the wreckage, the only salvageable things found were his left hand and pieces of his Diamonds decoration.

WWII: What impact did that have on the progress report to Hitler concerning the jet fighters?

Galland: Hitler, from what I understand, was upset about his loss, but I don't think he really said anything about it to me. Well, the remains of that unit went to form JG.7, commanded by our friend Johannes Steinhoff. Steinhoff recruited other great aces to command the various groups.

WWII: After you were fired as general of fighters, you were replaced by a man whom the fighter pilots did not respect, correct?

Galland: Yes, Gordon Gollob, and he was not well liked. Although he was a good pilot, with the Diamonds, he had no character. He was not Göring's first choice. Hajo Herrmann was being considered, and he would have been a better selection. When I was released as general of fighters, Göring was preparing a coup against me, and when Hitler learned of this he ordered Göring to stop the actions against me. Hitler ordered my replacement but allowed me to form my own 262 unit, basically allowing me to keep my rank but reducing my responsibilities.

WWII: How did you feel about once again becoming a squadron leader, where you started?

Galland: I was happy. I then chose all the pilots I could find who would join me, and all had the Knight's Cross or higher decorations. This was the beginning of March 1945, when I created Jagdverband 44. I made Steinhoff my recruiting officer, and he traveled to all of the major bases, picking up pilots who wanted to once again feel a sense of adventure. We had most of the greats, like Gerd Barkhorn, Walter Krupinski, Heinz Bär, Erich Hohagen, Günther Lützow, Wilhelm Herget and others. I tried to get Erich Hartmann. We flew several missions and were very successful using the R4M rockets, which we fired at bomber formations. During my first attack with rockets, Krupinski was on my wing, and we witnessed the power in these rockets. I shot down two Martin B-26 Marauders.

WWII: Tell us about April 26. That was your last combat flight wasn't it?

Galland: Yes, I was shot down by a Republic P-47D flown by a man named James Finnegan, whom I met some years later, and we became friends. We were intercepting bombers near Neuberg. I was leading a flight, and I attacked from the rear, astern. My rockets did not fire, but I poured 30mm cannon shells into one bomber, which fell in flames, and flew right through the formation, hitting another. I could not tell if that bomber was finished off, so I banked around for another run, all the while my jet was receiving hits from the bombers' defensive fire. Suddenly my instrument panel disintegrated, my canopy was shattered, and my right knee was struck. I was losing power and was in great pain. I thought about parachuting out but realized that might be dangerous, as some of our pilots had been strafed upon exiting their jets. I flew for the deck and headed for this field at the air base, which was under attack. I cut the power to my good engine and thumped across the field. My nose wheel had been flattened, and smoke was pouring from my plane. I climbed out to get away, in case it should explode, only to find aircraft dropping bombs and firing rockets at me. Well, our mission netted five victories total, and none of the pilots were killed. From that point forward, Bär took operational command, and every unit in Germany with jets began bringing them to us at Reim airfield, near Munich. For such a long time I had been begging for planes. Now that the war was almost over I had more planes than men to fly them.

WWII: You were there when Steinhoff crashed. What do you remember of that?

Galland: Five of us--myself, Barkhorn, Schallmoser, Faehrmann and Klaus Neumann--were taking off on a mission shortly after our base had been attacked, and Steinhoff's 262 hit a crater made from a bomb. His jet lifted into the air but without sufficient takeoff speed, then he nosed in and exploded. We returned to base to find him carried to the hospital more dead than alive. The fact he survived is the most incredible thing, and I am glad he did, for he is one of my closest friends today.

WWII: After you were captured and released from prison, you went to Argentina with other aviation experts. How did that happen?

Galland: Juan Perón was wanting German experts to build his air force, and I was asked to come along with others. I went and established a training and operations school, developed their tactical training program, and was able to fly again in some of the new designs purchased by Argentina. I really loved that period. It was one of the happiest of my life. Kurt Tank (designer of the Focke Wulf 190 series of fighters) came, and he was the one who convinced President Perón to bring me over. I did that until 1955, when I returned to Germany and entered the business world, consulting and getting my life together.

WWII: As you probably know, the Argentine air forces were still using much of your strategy and doctrine as late as the Falklands War, with great effect.

Galland: Yes, they lost the war, but they had the best success in the air. They were bright young boys, willing to learn and quick to grasp the essentials of air combat.

WWII: Tell us about your children.

Galland: I have two--a son, Andreas-Hubertus, whom we call Andrus, combining the two names; and Alexandra, my daughter, two years younger than her brother and a very sweet girl. Both are from my first marriage. Andreas-Hubertus just recently married and is studying to become a lawyer, while Alexandra goes to school and studies languages. They are the sunshine of my life.


This article was written by Colin D. Heaton originally published in World War II Magazine in January 1997.

[Hummingbird]

This page is an interview with Mr. James Finnegan who shot Adolf Galland down in April of 1945.

What fighter group were you with?

I was with the 50th fighter group. I had been in the European theater since May 20, 1944, but my first combat mission was on D-Day - -June 6th, 1944.

Did you know of Adolf Galland during the war?

No I did not know of him. I met him in 1979.
The way we met was through a Japanese-American student at San Jose State University. As part of his required reading in school, he read Galland’s book ‘The First and the Last’. After graduation, his parents sent him to Japan as a present, and there the student met some ex-Zero pilots who asked him to check American Air Force records of aerial actions that had taken place in the Pacific theater, as theirs were destroyed.
The Air Force sent him the reports, and he saw how detailed they were, and was able to help the Japanese pilots. He then remembered reading Galland’s book, and remembered the passage about him being shot down. He looked up Galland and wrote him to ask if he wanted to know who had shot him (Galland) down. The student found my name in the action reports for that area on April 26, 1945, and deduced that it was Galland’s Me-262 that I had listed as a probable.
So, then Galland and I exchanged letters and put the mission together. Galland had initially thought it was a P-51 that shot him down, but realized later that it was P-47’s that were escorting the B-26 Marauders.
The two of us began corresponding, and we first actually met at an Air Force Association meeting in San Francisco in 1979. Galland wrote and said he and Bob Stanford-Tuck were invited to the meeting and would like to meet. I went to pick them up from the San Francisco airport, and we went for a few drinks.
That began our association. I last saw him in 1991 or `92 when he came to San Jose for an appearance, and asked if my wife and I would like to be his guests for dinner.
He and his wife had stayed at our home, and we had visited and stayed in his home in Oberwinter.

Can you describe the combat against Adolf Galland in his Me-262?

I was leading the top flight cover of P-47’s that was escorting the B-26’s to their target. As I gazed down, I saw 2 objects come zipping through the formation, and 2 bombers blew up immediately. I watched the 2 objects go through the bomber formation, and thought “that can’t be a prop job....it’s got to be one of the 262 jets.”
I was at about 13,000 feet and estimated them to be at about 9-10,000. They were climbing, and I pulled a split-S towards the one that turned left, and almost ended up right on top of him - - about 75 yards away!!
I gave a 3 second burst and saw strikes on the right hand engine and wing root. I was going so fast, I went right through everything, and guessed my speed at about 450 mph. I recorded it as a probable.
I was flying a D model Thunderbolt with a bubble canopy, a natural metal finish and a black nose. The 262 had a green and brown mottled camouflage with some specs of yellow.
That turned out to be my last flight in a P-47. My kills for the war were an FW-190 and an Me-109, in addition to the Me-262.

What thoughts did you have about Adolf Galland?

Galland always impressed me as being a true warrior. He loved combat and the involvement, but was not out to kill. That was just part of it.
I speak to colleges, schools and other groups, and feel the need to mention to not forget what WW2 was all about. It was nothing to glamorize....it was something we believed in. When I got into it, I said whoa....they are shooting at me....this is for real.

A sincere THANKS! goes out to Mr. Finnegan who gave his time for this "interview" in the fall of 1996.

[Hummingbird]

Günther Rall


The 275 victory ace, Günther Rall, visited Finland in June 2003 and gave lectures about his career during the war and during the post war years in newly born Luftwaffe and NATO.
The lecture by Günther Rall was arranged by the Aviation Museum Society, Finland.
Mr. Rall has given permission to the Finnish Virtual Pilots Association to publish the lecture in print and as video. The video is not yet published.
Recording: Jukka O. Kauppinen "Grendel
Tape transcription: Eric Kent, Kev "Kokpit" Gregory and Brendan Bayne.
Proofreading and editing: Jukka O. Kauppinen
Corrections: Erick Sart, Raimo Malkamäki
Photos: Jukka Kauppinen aka Grendel, Pentti "Buffalo" Kurkinen, Erkki "Eni" Nieminen, Riku "Panzzer" Vaskuu, Matti "My" Yrjölä
More information about mr. Rall and his private interview can be read from our photo report: Günther Rall, Luftwaffe ace in Finland June 2003.
Quick look at mr. Rall:
• Joined the German army 1936
• Joined the Air Force 1938
• 275 aerial victories, 272 in east
• Joined Bundesluftwaffe 1956, trained in the USA to jets, F-84 and F-104
• Jagdbombergeschwader 34 commander
• NATO Defence College
• Brigadier General 1966
• Commander of German Air Force 1970-1974
• German military attache of NATO, 1974-1975
His story spans a childhood in a defeated country, two world wars, the calamity of the Nazi regime, the Cold War, the jet age, his distinguished service as a NATO military representative, his work with the US Air Force, and chief of the new German Air Force. In civilian life Rall has been one of the most sought-after military consultants and advisors by international agencies, ministries of defense, and multinational corporations.
PLEASE NOTICE:
This is Work In Progress version of the article.
There are place names, person names and various other things which are unclear to the author. If you are willing you can download the MP3 sound files and try to find out what mr. Rall said. All scrambled or non-clear parts are marked with "## timestamp part number", which makes it easy to find them. Part 1 - Part 2 - Part 3 - Part 4.
Please use the Feedback-system for corrections. Thanks a lot!


Günther Rall's lecture
I didn't know what the speaker said, but I hope it's true!

I'm very pleased, very honored, to be here in Finland.  This is the first time. I was in Norway, was in Sweden, as a pilot, but never in Finland.  But now I made it, and I'm very happy and I'm very grateful for that.

The talk today is about a time that's about fifty years ago, and we are focused on the World War II which was for us a catastrophe, but anyway.... We young generation were challenged like never before, and I think like never after that.  

I will tell you the highlights of the period over five and a half years, and later on, my career also in the new German Air Force when I had the pleasure to fly some very interesting aircraft.  But I think more vividly will be when we are finished and you and me start a question and answer period, and then we can concentrate on the things you are interested in.

Okay, I joined the army as a cadet in 1936.  I wanted to become an officer. And after the officer's examinations after one and half years, and a promotion to Lieutenant, I switched to the Air Force because I found my passion was on the aviation side, not on the marching.  Flying was much better and certainly I wanted to be a fighter pilot.  

You know in those days the Air Force, newly built air force, didn't have enough capacity to train their cadets, so they took cadets from the officers, lieutenants, from the army and from the navy into the Air Force.

And I made my wings in Neubiberg, near Münich; it took one year.  And then I went to the fighter school near Berlin, north east of Berlin, with in those days famous instructor pilots like Galland, Trautloft, Luetzow... All in the German Air Force, famous people.  And when I had finished, I was transferred to the Wing 52 (JG52) down near Stuttgart, Boeblingen and the war started... right there when I was finished and a trained fighter pilot.

The outbreak of war was, you know, after 20 years after World War I, was quite a shock for the German people.  There was no enthusiasm.  But, there was war.  But we, as young pilots and young officers certainly were challenged, and we wanted to do our duty according our code of honor.  
The early war
At the beginning, the wing was equipped then with a Me 109 E.  You know, this was the last model with the square wings-- wing tips, struts and a 603 engine.  What we didn't, this is still a question to me, in the fighter school up in Werneuchen near Berlin, we still were trained on Arado 68, the biplanes, and we still flew 3-ship formations, close formations, which was already obsolete.  

In the Spanish Civil War, the famous Moelders and Luetzow, they developed the 4-ship formation which was much more flexible, you know.  The leader, we have two what we call Rotten.  4 were the Schwarm, and 2 Rotten.  You could turn every way, you know, not in this stay-on-the-same-side close formation, but you are flexible.  This tactic was adopted for all the air forces during the war, even the Russians.  It took time, then we all changed to the 4-ship formations which was a very flexible formation in the air.

At the early days of the war, you know, this was what the French called the "drole de guerre" a False War, because we flew the Rhine really up and down on the eastern side, and the French on the Western side, but never crossed, because no one was sure is it really coming to a really hot war. It changed in May '40, when the Germans invaded France. From there it was clear what was going on.  

There I had my first contact, my first victory.  We had the order to pick my squadron.  I was a leader of the second Schwarm.  A squadron had 12 airplanes which means 3 Schwarms. 3 times 4:   4, 4, 4.  I had the second Schwarm.  And we have to pick up a Heinkel 111.  It came from the area of Nancy and we had to pick her up and give her, escort her safely back home.

When we approached this area I saw already 10 spots in the air.  And this was 10 P-36s (Curtiss Hawk 75): French Air Force.  French Air Force in those days was not well equipped and didn't have masses of airplanes. They had to buy American airplanes; and they bought the P-36 as a fighter.  

So, we got engaged. You know, the first contact, it is a very exciting thing.  You are concentrated [sic], but you are excited, also. And, as a second Schwarm, I came down on their second element.  And we started turning very roughly and dogfighting.  

And there I discovered the first thing you have to consider in a 109.  The 109 had slots.  The slot had a purpose to increase the lift during takeoff and landing.  In the air automatically it's pressed to the main wing.  And if you turn very roughly you got a chance, it's just by power, the wing, the forewing, comes out a little bit, and you snap.  This happened to me. I released the stick immediately and it was ok then.  

And in this dogfight I got my first hit.  This French plane caught fire, American plane from a French wing, caught fire.  And right when I was behind him, and the big flame, I got hit.  And you hear that, you know, the bullets: bang, bang.  So it was a confusing thing, the first dogfight.

And, due to fuel shortage we both broke up; French back home.  They lost 3. We lost 1. And we back to Germany.

I always said this is, in a first contact, psychologically, (it's) good to be a winner.  This gives you self-confidence.  And if you are hit, it gives you a warning:  The next time you could be that one who is shot down.  And these both psychological impressions gave me throughout the war, this is a main thing: you are confident that you are going to make it. If not, stop it, and pay attention.  You could be the one, not the other one.

During the war in France things happen; I don't elaborate on this.  After the battle over France we were pulled out, trained on sea navigation, what we called in those days dead reckoning, you know, with heading, time and speed. This was the only navigation system you had.  You had your airspeed indicator.  You had your "Horizont", compass and the time.

And then we were transferred to near Calais: Coquelles.  You know in those days there was not sure whether the German High Staff had a plan to invade Great Britain.  They didn't for Christ's sake.  It would be a catastrophe, those days.  Because you know, we discovered now, at the Battle against England, the Battle of Britain, we were short in fuel like the British were; but they were over their homeland.

We could just reach from Calais, as fighters, London. And we stayed 5 minutes over London and then we have to fly back.  If there would be a bigger air operation with bombers flying into the islands, the British islands, they would have to fly without escort up from London.  And this would be a deadly operation.

We are now faced with Hurricanes, with Spitfires, and this was a different quality - a different quality in equipment and a different quality in leadership from the British.  You know, they had a very good system to direct their fighters according the threat they have to face.  

And we were young, untrained, unexperienced group and had this silly task to escort Ju-87s.  You know, Ju-87s is a dive bomber, a Stuka; heavy, slow in speed and if it carries a bomb it's even slower. And so we had strict order to stay with them close.  This means we had to go down to the speed of a Ju-87 which gives up, gets rid of all of our advantages.  So we stalled over the British Channel and the Spitfires just waited upstairs and shot us down.  And, we lost a lot of pilots: my squadron commander, my group commander and some others.  And all of a sudden I was, with 20 years, 22 years, a squadron leader from the 8th squadron.

And this gives me the rule: a fighter has to have freedom in the air to select his position.  Only can he decide.  And how he fights is up to him. You cannot order from the ground "you stay there and do this and this."  The situation changes and it's up to the qualified fighter pilots to find the right position, and a matter of experience how to target it. It was a good lecture, but a very painful lecture we got at the British Channel.  

After a while, we went back and got new pilots, new airplanes and then we were transferred down to Neusiedl am See, that's in Austria.  We just waited one week, and then the order came to go to Romania.  You know, Romania has a lot of oil in the Carpathian Mountains and we had to protect this oil industry and towers. Konstanza was the oil harbor, the big very important oil harbor of Romania, and the bridges over the Danube river into Bulgaria, because there were already plans for an aggression towards Bulgaria, towards Greece, because the Italians had some problems storming Greece and they asked for help.  

During this time we trained also Romanian fighter pilots who had also the 109 as an aircraft.  It didn't take very long.  

The war started down to Greece, Crete island. We were transferred down to Athens and then to the south Peloponnesus, Molaoi, a very small village at the south edge of the Peloponnesus.  

And the war against Crete island started.  And Crete island was a horrible thing.  First thing, the, you know, the attack forces were parachuters, German parachuters and German mountaineers.  One came with the ships, the other ones by airplane, and the thing was the whole operation was known to the New Zealanders who covered and occupied Crete island in those days. The parachuters bailed out too high, at 800 meters, which means the parachuters are hanging too long and they were shot down.  They lost all the officers and there was one medical officer when he took over the command.  

The place, the landing strip was Malemes.  And we went to Malemes, and there was not a big air battle. There was air-to-ground mainly.   And we had some problems because these Germans troops had to be supported logistically.  And weapons and ammunition was dropped in containers from airplanes.  And they were, they had a round swastika flag as a national forward line.  And many, many of those containers were dropped just into the New Zealanders and they took up the swastika flag.  And we came down,  high speed at 30, 40 meters; we couldn't identify who's who!  This was our big problem; it was solved later on.  Crete [Kreta] was at the edge.  But they made it.  

And when Crete was finished we went back to Romania, and there we got a new airplane. It was the 109 F.  This was my beloved aircraft.  It was the first aircraft with the round wing tips, no struts in the back, 605 engine (ed. DB 601), excellent, and not too overloaded.  You know, later on they put in this, and put in this, and put in this.  The aircraft became heavier, but not this one.  The F was my ideal aircraft.  

And it had a very good weapon set.  We had a 20 millimeter gun through the propellor, and two 15 millimeters (actually 2 x 7,92 mms) on top of the engine.  It was enough.
War in the east
And we trained and we recognized that we'd been getting more and more army forces.  And we asked "what the hell is going on here?" So we go to war against Russia.  This was a shock for us.  We hadn't completed the war in the west and they opened a new front without any deep knowledge. Thing of Napoleon, you know.  You have a space you cannot cover with this number of troops.  This is impossible.

Again, we know how the war started.  And in the evening I got the order to take with my squadron, I was squadron leader of the 8th squadron down to Mamaia.  Mamaia was on the Black Sea, north of Konstanza.  Today it's a big beach, bar, and recreation center.  In those days it was just a plain lawn with one hangar, and nobody there - no radar, no telephone, no nothing.

I landed with my squadron.  Nothing was there.  Then a flak commander got the order to pick me up from Konstanza. He gave me an introduction to sea and the front line.  And we didn't have radar and no warning; so we said okay.  In the morning at dawn two aircraft out 6000 meters over the Black Sea. The target must be Konstanza for the Russians, nothing else.  And all the others in the squadron are in alert, cockpit alert: turn on the radio on the same frequency and they'd report. They didn't take very long to come.  

We took off, 6000 meters, and we just hit the DB-3 - without escort. Again, it's an example: a bomber without escort by fighters, it's a deadly operation. And the Russians lost within two weeks, I don't know, 25, 30 bombers, and that was the end. They never came.  Certainly we also had losses.

And there we discovered one thing: one NCO of my squadron - a very fine man who got killed later on in the war; he was shot at 6000 meters and he bailed out. And in this hazy area you don't see the horizon.  And when he comes down in the parachute he really doesn't know how high he is.  And he thought, it's about time to get released.  He released the parachute and fell down 60 meters into the sea.  

What we did later on when we were over sea if you have to bail out, get down, take you boots and drop them, and we you see the impact on the sea. Then you know how high you are. But, you must have the experience.  

And after this, for the Russians, very very serious operation...  We were out on the sea, 3 Pe-2 came low over the Carpathian mountains. They couldn't be discovered by radar and they attacked the base from the west.  We were out to the east over the Black Sea.  And aircraft out there for maintenance, etc, (the Russians) destroyed them. And we had the loss of 40 mechanics and one of  the top mechanics, a very, very fine Viennese. He got killed. It was very bad for the squadron.  
When this operation was finished we came in to Russia to a big tank battle at Kiev.  We're stationed at Biala Zerkow; Biala Zerkow is today Ukraine, south of Kiev, and there I got my first shot down.  We had, again, to escort Ju-87s.  This was a big tank battle south of Kiev - many Russian tanks, many German tanks, a deadly operation. And we had to escort down the Ju-87 because when they pulled up, right there the Russian fighters came in.  And when they were coming we went down and shot.  

And my, what we call Kaczmarek, my wingman called: "You got smoke!" "Ach..." In other words I was hit in, from the ground, attacked from the ground, the flak, anti-aircraft, in the oil cooler. You know, right in the middle of the fuselage, underneath the engine, there's the oil cooler.  And then the oil comes out and just by the wind it's blown like a film over the engine and over your windshield.  You don't see anything.  It's a black film coming out.

My wingman told me, I was side by side - look at this, as I, you cannot get out here, there we are dead men, you know.  Down there - there's the hell. I want to cross the Dnepr river, but I was not very high. I was about three, four hundred meters high because we went down with the Stuka.  And I didn't know if there is a forward front line for the Germans or whatever this, I don't know.... Beyond the river it's much safer, but there was the woods.

To make the long story short, I was happy enough; I just got a cut in the wood.  And I made a belly landing, a very rough one, you know, with this cut. I slipped down and I didn't know what's going on here.  Out, hiding behind a tree, and all of a sudden artillery, Woomp!

I said, by golly, those are the Russians. Then I went from tree to tree and all of a sudden in the distance of 20-30 meters there was a soldier man: brown leather coat, hat, red star, boy!  But I think, as he approaches, I'd better think, approaching friendly, go to him.  And I went to him and what was it? It was a Slovakian officer.  They had a similar uniform with the red army but the Slovakians were on our side. So it ended happily.

From there on we fought down... I mean this was my first shot down; it happened eight times and different results.  But I will touch this a little bit later.  

From there on we flew over the Dnepr river, Dnepropetrowsk, down to the (##UNCLEAR place name tape 1) desert. That's north of the Crimean [Krim] peninsula.  And the Crimean peninsula, you know has an access, it's a very small land bridge. And there's a Tartar ditch, "Tartar Damm," which was a focus point for battles since centuries when the Tartans were still there and fought the Russians.  

Moelders was there. And Moelders was, in those days, the General for Fighters.  And he was not allowed anymore to fly personally because he was highly decorated already, and he was the leader. I found out this was the first time, we would today say: a Forward Air Controller.  He started with a Storch at dawn, the morning, down there and direct it because all the operations concentrated over this small land bridge.  There was a hell of a battle in the air, on the ground.  

Finally we broke through, down.... And then we were pulled out, my group, to the east to the  (##UNCLEAR place name tape 1) area, this was between Taganrog and Rostow.  And there....  

Before that, we went up to Poltawa and Belaja Zerkow and Charkow . And you know, we lived in tents. I come to this later: the psychological effect on a unit who is always moving, living in tents - or the other ones, like in France flying in England; and they have in the evening their white beds.  They have their sleeping room. They have the officers' mess.  This is a different situation.  

And now when we were in Poltawa, in Charkow, and then in Taganrog, the winter started.  And, you know, the Germans were not prepared for the winter.

Our mechanics didn't have overalls because we had to face temperatures down to -30 and -35 degrees.  They worked in the open air with the tools, iron, frozen hand. It was awful and the most illegal thing was certainly the starting system of the 109.  The 109, it has to be cranked up.  The pilot was sitting in the cockpit on the right side of the mechanic and he cranked the machine and then chu chu chu out (engine starts).  

But at -30 degrees you never get an engine running.  So we make open fire underneath, what the hell, to overcome this.  It was a big, big problem. Certainly, there was a modification that we had because of every starting system.  After the last mission in the day in the cockpit, engine running, we had a switch that pumped fuel in the lubrication line so we got the lubrication filled and we could start the engine.  This helped quite a bit.  Later on we got cover underneath, but this was later.  

But first experience was serious and dangerous.  The first time I was hit, this was between Taganrog and Rostov, about one afternoon, you know we're still on German time.  This means at 2:30 it's almost dark.  I flew a fighter sweep with my wingman and we hit two Yaks. We had a ceiling which was about 400 meters, down there snow and desert, nothing plain. I came in and I got the first one of these Russian pilots and he was in flames. It was already almost dark and was blinded.  And this very moment, his second came and shot me and the engine was rip billowing, nothing happened anymore. It was on the Russian side so I tried to get as far as I could to the west.  And I saw exactly in landing direction, what we call in Russia, a baikal. It's a little canyon about 40-50 meters deep and it was just across my landing direction. And I couldn't turn.  I was about 50-60 meters, low speed, no power.  But I got in, pulled it out, stalled and the only thing I saw the opposite wall came against me and bang I was out.  My wingman circled around. German tanks were in the neighborhood and they saw it also and picked me up.  

It was a complete wreckage.  There was no wing, no nothing anymore, just the body.  And luckily, the engine was thrown about 40 meters in the air, so no fire.  They told me that the soldiers came.  They couldn't open the canopy.  They opened it with a file and a fork, pulled me out.  Much later at night I came in a truck to consciousness and I had awful pains.  I was taken to the first medical care at night which was awful.  I was taken away.  I couldn't move and I was paralyzed.  They took me after a while, there was no x-ray, no nothing.  The Germans were in retreat.  They took me by Ju-52 to Bucharest in Romania.  This was a normal peace time hospital where I was taken to x-ray.  And the doctor came and said Lt. you've broken your back 3 times in 3 places, forget flying.  I waited a minute and said, "Doctor I will fly."  I got an extension cast and after awhile I was taken to Vienna with the Red Cross train. There I came to the hospital. I got a peaceful treatment, by the way, the doctor became my wife. I was 5 months in this extension cast.

It took about 8 months until I could return to my squadron.  I came there and just started before the attack started.  Before that I checked myself. I had a friend in Vienna when I was in the hospital.  He was a commander of a fighter school.  I said I wanted to check myself.  He said, "come, get an airplane."  I got there and got a Bücker Jungmeister.  You know Jungmeister is the acrobatic bi-plane, beautiful.  I made loops and turns to check the G forces, what the G forces have impact on my back.  Some pains, but anyway.  So I went back to my wing.  And then we got an introduction to frontline.  We flew a 109.  From there on I had a special arrangement. I had some cushions pumped up here and there so I could sit.  I was always identified by my squadron because I was always sitting a little bit forward than the other ones.  Then the things started down in the Caucasus.

But what was interesting, was our lawn.  You know we selected lawn.  There was no airfield.  There the prospect rivals came from the clans, Caucasians, Chezhens.  They came to us to the base and said we want to fight with you against the Soviets, not the Russians, the Soviets.  And this they did.  They went to the army.  They marched with the army until the dead end of the war.  These poor guys you know.  The Russians killed them all.  

I had these great experiences with the new, you know the Russians had a lend lease contract with the western allies to get airplanes.  And one day I shot down, made my report, a Spitfire.  The reports were sent to the division.  In the evening I got a call from the division was in Kertsch, are you crazy, Spitfire is in the west.  I said wait a minute tomorrow. And tomorrow we had 20 Spitfires in the air over this battle over Kinsakaya.  This was also a big tank battle.  From there on we recognized the lend lease results.  You had Spitfires, Airacobras, B-25 bombers.  One third of the Russian Air Force in Caucasus were Anglo-American origin.  

You know the whole army  was retreating into the north, supported Stalingrad again at temperatures -35 degrees.  From Stalingrad, we were pulled out, got new airplanes, the Gustav (Bf 109 G). The first time all the pilots went back to Wiener Neustadt where they were produced in Austria and they came back with this brand new aircraft just to start again the battle in Taman, Krimskaya. From there we went down again to the Krym peninsula and flew on the Asian side, Taman, and on the remaining part of the peninsula down there.

It was very, very tough fighting.  I have to say that when we started the war the Russians had obsolete types as fighter types.  The main plane was the I-16, the Rata.  They had flown already in the Spanish Civil War.  The Rata was slow but tremendous maneuvering aircraft.  You never get in a dogfight on a Rata.  You come in and he comes straight at on you.  It doesn't make sense.  The technique is to get in and get out, but not turn around with Rata, that is senseless. They lost a lot of airplanes in the first period of the war.  But the Russians learned.  They came out after one year with the Yaks, the MiG, the LaGG  - modern types and in masses.  Their production was beyond the Ural.  Outside the reach of German bombers, they produced and produced and they came and formed special red banner guard regiments which were excellent.  They painted their aircraft from the propeller to the cap in red.  Red for velvet.  They were very, very serious opponents, no doubt.  

After Stalingrad, after getting new airplanes we went to the battle of Kursk.  You know in the meantime, I had some belly landings that were not that important.  We got the order to go to battle.  It was a big pocket battle of Kursk, south of Orel.   This was a very, very decisive battle.  The Russians knew that and just by incident they put a tank division in the area.  The Germans wanted to close from the north and south to hold their pocket.  The Russians broke in and also the Germans had to divert troops and they couldn't do that.  It was a very serious fight between tanks and certainly a big engagement of German fighters.  

There two things happened I'll never forget.  I was hit by a Russian fighter against cooler and I had to make a belly landing.  When I made the belly landing it was between the lines.  And everybody was shooting at me.  Ping, ping, ping.  And then a German tank came.  I'll never forget that.  It was a tank from the SS division.  It was in the south.  They picked me up and took me in the tank.  It was for me a lucky time.  

Then the next unforgettable event.  In the late afternoon, at that time I was already commander of the 3rd group to which the 8th squadron belonged.  The 3rd group was the 7th, 8th, 9th squadron of the wing 52 (JG52).  In the evening I flew a fighter sweep over the pocket at about 4000 meters.  The situation was in the east there was a tremendous cumulous cloud going up to 6000 meters.  In the west was the sun going down and it lit this cumulous like gold.  And I flew from the west to the east and against this cumulous I saw two spots and I turned my accelerator.  We called them Indians.  We approached, we approached and they didn't recognize that.  And I saw the silhouette and  couldn't see the color.  I saw this silhouette against this white cloud.  But I recognized he had a rotating engine and I knew two days before a group of  Focke-Wulf 190s was transferred in our area.  They flew there.  I never had seen a Focke-Wulf 190 until then in the air.  Certainly, I saw pictures, but not in the air.  I wondered if that could be a FW 190.  I approached that black, rotating engine, at overspeed.  I pulled off to the side and looked down.  Dark green, red star. If I would turn away, he  would chase me.  So the only choice was get down and I was about a 100 meters higher than he, get down, pull the trigger, get him. I pulled and stalled right, aim on that plane. I never forget that bang.  I came in like that, cut him off with my propeller, his right wing and he cut off my body (fuselage) with his propeller.  I was more lucky.  I still had two wings and my old body. He had one wing and with one wing you cannot fly. He  went down.  I made it back to my lawn, air base, and very carefully (started to land).  You know if you pull some G the tail comes off.  I knew that something must have happened down there.   I landed.  I saw about 1 meter or 1,50 meter split (hole in the fuselage), but I landed.  
After that, you know we had our fights.  You know from Kursk ownward, there was no forward operation, only a retreat.  Hitler declared correction of the frontline, retreat back.  Somebody could ask, did you still believe in a victory in those days.  I will tell you, we didn't think of that.  We think how we can get out of this.  There was still a hope of some political contacts, some solutions.  We had to fight as long as we were there and this went on and on.  I came down again and was ordered to Romania and was ordered again to Krimean peninsula.  This was the last fight.  Crimean peninsula was absolutely taken by the Russians.  And we had to get in and the last fight was west of Sevastopol. And I ordered a pair of 109s, only 1 mechanic.  I knew if we had to leave, we will be thrown out.  There's no doubt, but we can put the mechanics in the body of the airplane.  We took out the radio, put them in and we got all out safely over the Black Sea which is 400 kilometers to Romania.  
Back to Germany
There I got the order to take over as commander of the 2nd group in Germany against the Americans.  You know over Germany the Americans didn't come in the early days with fighter escort. They got the lesson at Schweinfurt with B17 and B24, because they came without fighters. And now they came with fighters.  The German fighters flew into the big bulk of the bombers.  But now the leaders felt we must have dogfight trained pilots (to fight) against the American fighters.  

Now the big difference, talking about the airplanes we confronted.  The Americans came in P-47 or P-38 or -P51.  Their engines flew 7 ½ hours with internal tank fuel, not external tank.  We, and all continental aircraft, including the Spitfires, all the French planes, flew 1 hour 20.  We had an external tank, but you had to drop the tank because it reduced mobility. This was a tremendous handicap against the Americans.  

Here, I want to tell you one last big, big fight was 12th May 1944.  In the morning, I got call from the division commander 15 minutes alert we expect a big bomb raid. Then it was 15 minutes, 10 minutes, 5 minutes, cockpit alert. He said when the forward escort fighters are in this and this area, we start.  This was in North Germany.  Underneath are two Focke Wulf 190's.  I am top cover with about 3000 meters on top with my fighter group against fighters. We went down, we saw the contrails, they came.  Near north of Frankfurt we got in contact with a P-47 group.  I went down right into the leader.  They covered the area always with 4, 4, 4, 4.  This was so called Hub Zemke's wolf pack.  Hub Zemke was a leader of this American fighter group and he developed this tactics to cover a wide air space with wolf pack.  

I came in and got to the leader of the wolf pack and got his left wing.  Flames you know.  With this tremendous amount of fuel you get a flame.  Then I cut to the right and I was hunted. Then they chased me.  I should tell you the numbers.  It was 800 4-engine bombers, B-17, B-24.  This is a parade of 2 hours.  They had cover of 1200 fighters from the Hartz mountains down to Stutgard.  Always in 4, 4 or other formations.  So it without chance.  Anyway, I was chased by  P-47.  I knew exactly that in a dive P-47 is much faster than 109.  And the P-47 has a much higher structural strength. They can go up to 1400 kilometers per hour. The 109, if you go to 1000, pull it up, you risk that the wings come off.  So I went down from that, bang, bang, bang.  I was chased by what we call line abreast, 4 p-47s.  And all that shooting here and all of a sudden bang. The left hand was on the throttle and came off and the thumb was off.  Finally, I managed.  This was a very traumatic thing, certainly.  I pull up, when I was down, to the stalling point.  The couldn't follow me because these P-47 wanted to fly back to England.  And I want to get rid of my airplane. I don't care for the airplane, I want to get out of this.  I managed that.  This was very difficult because I was hanging outside. I couldn't operate with this hand, nothing.  Finally it worked and I pulled the parachute way down and I came down safely and was hanging on a tree.  

I was in for quite a number of months again in the hospital because I got an infection from an American pilot, who also was shot down and in the same hospital as me and had an infection.  It took me time and when I came back I reported to my senior, Trautloft in those days, and said I wanted to take over my group. He said "you're crazy"  It was still open and the bone was out.  He said "you cannot do that you have to recover. Nix." I became for a certain time, commander of a fighter leader school. This was not that important.  

What was important was the German Air Force had a formation of captured aircraft restored.  They came for training to my fighter leader school.  Certainly, I only flew the P-51, P-47, P-38 as a target for my students.  So I learned these planes and I learned the advantages and disadvantages compared with the Focke-Wulf 190 and the 109.  And I still consider that altogether with all these factors that the P-51 was most  likely one of the best fighter planes.  This was maneuverable.  When I got in, the first thing, I got in the cockpit and I saw electric starting system.  I remember wank, wank in Russia (refers to the manual starter by mechanics).  Her (P-51) press button, prrrd, then we go (electrical starter, easy engine starter). Fantastic.  Beautiful sight (visibility).  We never had this sight to the back.. Very stable undercarriage. Very good weapons set. So I think this was a very good airplane. I flew it a few times, then I flew the P-47, then I discovered the speed difference, down, perfect. P-38.  And I flew the Spitfire.  The Spitfire was a fantastic airplane, but with a limited endurance like all the continental aircraft.  So this was a good lecture for me.  After that I became a wing commander of the Wing 300 (JG300).  This was at the end of the war in February 1945.  It was chaos. I don't talk about that anymore.

The main thing was where could we get fuel, you know.   Where could we get food for the mechanics?  Many German wings were already dissolved and all of a sudden I ended up near Salzburg where I'm living today in in Ainring. And there we dissolved the troops and before we said thanks, I said: "every mechanic who wants to get his box with all the instruments in it, take it home."
This is a new initiative for our existence.  The war was over.  It was a hard time.  I went to the industry.  I chased around.  And 56, before then I got a call. In the meantime my wife was a doctor.  She was a doctor at the Salem school, a very famous public school in Germany.   I got a call that I should have to come to the new German Air Force.  How do you think?  There was not a great enthusiasm after these experiences.  Finally, I was convinced.  We old timers have to do that.  Otherwise, we cannot belong in new German Air Force.  So I did.  We went with the first 15 pilots after the training in Germany to Luke AFB starting with F-84.  You know, funny enough, you know when we had starter pilots in Germany you start them with T-6 and T-33.  And then we went to the U.S. and these were all old timers from WWII.  
The first station was San Antonio, Texas and the next morning in the San Antonio newspaper was a big photograph with a P-51 in the middle, left was Hartmann and right was me. And a big headline was Göring's finest fly again.  We went to the journalistic and said we're on your side.  It was a beautiful time.  Went back, then I got the order for the F-104.  And I flew it for the firm with all the tests in Palmdale, California.  I loved this airplane, it was an ingenious design from Kelly Johnson from Lockheed.  It was a great time.  Then I moved up, I flew all the different types, the F-4, not the Tornado.  The Tornado was on the paper in those days.  Then, moved up to the Chief of Air Staff.  After that, I was a joint representative to the Military Committee in Brussels.  And thus, this was the end of my career. O.K., I want to finish with this and I'll ask if you have questions, please be free and we can talk about them.
Questions and Answers
Q. Did you fly many more flights at the very end of the war, 1945?
A.  No, no.  I flew the 109.  My Wing and all the Combat Wings, we flew the 109G in those days.  But when I was a Commander of the Fighter Training School, I flew the 190, the long nose 190 and all types. We were testing them.  In combat I flew the 109.  I will tell you, the last month, April, there was no more fighting anymore in the last year, because we didn't get any warning.  You know, there was no radar station anymore.  In the west, there was finito with the war already.  So this was chaos.

Q.   In 1944, for you old pilots, it was probably very hard mental pressure when most of your friends had been….  
A.  You touch a point, you know.  What we call rise of attrition over Germany.  The highest attrition rate for all combat units in the war or traits were submarines. And right next to the submarines were the fighter pilots.  In every mission from mid 44 onwards, we knew that every second pilot wouldn't come back.  And we had young pilots.  You know we had too few pilots.  We had too big airspace.  You would think the Germans fought a war from the north came down from Egypt against England and was widespread North Africa.  It was widespread, there were unique pilots. But the fighters were used as fire brigade. We couldn't cover all of this. And now in the fights for life over Germany, we have young pilots with just one ride in a 109 and they were put in action.  It was murder. Absolutely.

Q.  Pilots of my age?
A.  Yes, of your age.

Q.  How about the victories scores. There was a mass of over claiming in all nations after the air battle, that pilots claimed aircraft destroyed.
A.  You mean how true is the victory's report?
Q.  Was it due to overall confusion in combat?  
A.  No, I really don't get you.  What's your point?
Q.  Pilots claimed that they destroyed 6 enemy aircraft.
A.  6 very seldom, 6 in one battle.
Q. The flight had destroyed 6, but actually only 2 aircraft were completely destroyed.  Was it due to confusion in combat?
A. No, first of all over there flak is very seldom.  You see flak over Germany or over Russia.  You see when you shoot down (enemy) because you come in, you pull your trigger when the enemy just hits your full visor, not before, that's too far.  Then you see and then if you see that you have to have witness.  Either you have air witness or account witness. And you have to write up very detailed report.  How precision, nationality, very detailed questionnaire, even how many rounds you used.  Certainly in a big air battle, he is shooting at that and he's shooting at that, it can be false report. But you have to have a witness, otherwise, if you don't you forget it.  

Q. About victory scores, was it completely different nature of air combat in eastern front?
A.  No, not in the air.  Was a difference certainly when Russian war started.  The aircraft was not the quality of the west, not the quality of what we had to face.  Most of the best was the British Royal Air Force, Spitfire.  The Russians didn't have that equipment.  The equipment was obsolete. They didn't have the tactics, but they learned from us, very quickly.  Then after a while they came out with, as I have mentioned, with new types. The LaGG-5, LaGG-7, was excellent aircraft. I chased a La-5 and never could get it.  They learned their lesson and they came in overwhelming numbers.
You know the Russians had for instance IL-2.  An IL-2 is very hard to shoot down.  It was armed like a tank. The Russian Air Force, like the German Air Force was focused on air to ground, support for the army.  They didn't have a strategic air force like the Americans and the British. It was a different air warfare.  You know they came in at 8000 - 9000 meters.  Mostly in the east, the later it became, our main enemy was IL-2. The bombers, the P30 (##?? 10:51 tape 3) bombers and fighters. But fighters were a different quality, which was excellent you know.  And tactics, they took over the 4-ship formation, also.  But on the other hand the whole temperature and the mood in the east was different than the west.  
What happened in the west, it happened really over the Mediterranean.  A British fighter pilot was shot and hit and he looked for an island (to make forced landing). The German (pilot) came, saluted and guided him in, impossible in the east. I can tell you I don't blame the Russians now but it's a fact: I have at least 10 friends, who never showed up.  They landed.  They belly landed in the Russian (area), but they never showed up, gone.  There was a difference between the east and west.

Q.  How good was your situational awareness, how well did you know what was going on around you, on your squadron or unit, but the on the other units on the other side of the front?  If you are fighting in the west, how did you know what was happening in the east or vice versa?
A.  By the radio, is the normal!  
You know we were not informed when we were in the west what's going on in detail in the east and vice versa.  We certainly knew how's your frontline.  How is the battle at Atlantic. But not more than the official information. There was not secret information, of let's say North Africa for instance.  We were depending on the normal information we got, even civilians over the radio.

Q.  You mentioned that the Russian planes were very good.  I would like to know which plane type was the one you respected the most of the Russian planes and how did you manage to fight it with the 109?
A.  If you talk about Russian planes, you talk about Russian constructed and designed.  There was the MiG, the Yak and the LaGG.  I respected the LaGG-7. You know with a radial engine, it was always good.  You know, I know from an inline engine you always get the troubles with the cooler.  You could be hit in the oil cooler or in the normal cooler, and then you have to go down in a certain time.  The radial engine is not that sensitive against fire like the inline engine.  The LaGG-5, LaGG-7 were very good airplanes, very fast and I as I mentioned you had many cases where I chased them and they chased us. And we and I couldn't get them, full power.  And the tactics were different you know.

Q.  I have read in many books that the Allied soldiers were very keen of German pilots' wristwatches.  Were they special or special made?
A.  I don't know about the quality of German watches, but when we became prisoner, your watch was gone and your awards also. The Knight's Cross was gone the moment you got down. The Russians had a particular ego for watches. You had some Russians, had 4 or 5 (watches) here (in the wrist).

Q.  Yes sir.  You have led a very exciting and very long life, and I would like to ask you….
A.  I hope it last a little bit more! .
Q  I want to know when you are thinking of your life, what is the best moment in your life or in your career, of course, after your birthday?
A.  When I married my wife.

Q.  Did you have any chance to fly German jet fighters?
A.  Yes, I flew the 262.
Q.  How did you like it?
A.  Good.  

Even though, there was some disadvantage in the beginning.  But you know, a pilot who flies always the normal and now he comes to the jet.  And when I was the leader of this final Leader School there was a friend of mine, Hans Speyer, (who) was a well-known pilot. Unfortunately he is dead.  He was a great fighter pilot.  He said come over and we'll check you out on 262.  Then I flew about 30 or 40 hours on 262.  
The first thing, you get in a cockpit you think you are sitting in saloon when you come out from the 109.  You know the 109 is way tight and you have the cannon between your legs and there isn't very much left and visibility to the back is poor.  In 262, you sit comfortably.
Secondly, you get a perfect radio receiver.  You don't have this "pa pa pa pa" (noise), like from auto engine. No, you get a very clear voice in your radio.  Third, you sit in like in a taxi.  Before that you know you'd taxi out like this with the normal aircraft.  Now you had a nose wheel.  Now you sit down, look out on the runway like in a car.  Fantastic.  Then you accelerate very slowly, in those days, because not to overheat up to 8000 rpm and then you release brakes.  You roll down and it rolls and rolls and you take off.  And then the 262 was very heavy until it came up to speed.  It was very heavy and not very maneuverable, but once it came up to speed up to .85 - .9 mach, then you hit the top of the speed and then you are absolutely superior.  
But you don't have the same tactics, no dog fighting. You just get in and out.  Because your (turn) radius is much bigger than in a normal airplane. The same applies to the landing.  When you come in for landing, low speed.  You know the 262 unit, they had Focke-Wulfs.  They were top cover for start and landing. They were always top Focke-Wulf upstairs, the protected the start and landing period of the 262.  These were the early things.  You know how today, if you accelerate a 262 too fast, you get high temperature, oil temperature, and fire in the engine.  These things are gone, we solved these problems.  But this was a sensational new era, no doubt.

Q: A question about 109s, because I understood that you flew western allied types, in that unit so you knew how they handled. So how do you think 109s last types fared against them. What were their strengths or weaknesses?
A: In the 109?

Q:Yes.
A: Ja. I will tell you the weakness, and I think, really, Messershmidt will forgive me. .
The 109 had not for us, maybe not for the long time pilots of the 109, but the new comers had problems starting with the gear.  You know it was a high, narrow gear.  And we had many ground loops. And then the gear breaks. That is not a norm, this is a exception, but it anyway happens. The cockpit, as such, was very narrow, VERY narrow. You have as I mentioned, the cannon between your two legs in rather like in a tunnel, you know?  And the visibility in the back was very poor.  Later on they made a steel plate to protect the head, backwards.  But they cut off the side through the back.  You know?  Because we had this steel plate, here.
Then the starting system, as I mentioned, this was absolutely obsolete, you know?  In an area with temperatures minus 30 degrees or more.  And then, which I didn't like this feature, the slots, Ja?  Why slots?  Look at the wing of the Spitfire!  Thats what we call elliptical shaped.  Its beautiful elope on the wing, the Spitfire.  We don't need lift help until takeoff and landing. You know? We can make it with a little bigger wing. So I mean, but, when you fly five and a half years in that plane in all conditions, you feel at home, even (laughing) if you have to leave it for some emergency reasons.

Q: I was particularly interested about, when in combat, for example against the P-51 with the later fighters.
Rall: Yeah, the 109 could compete with the P51, no doubt.  Maneuverability was excellent.  But the P51 could do it longer!    Ja?  And the pilot sits... But, you know, if you fly seven and a half hours, you cannot fly seven and a half hours in the cockpit in the 109.  You MUST have a better cockpit, which the P-51 has,  they came from England. They flew 7 hours, you know?  And so there are differences. But in the battle itself, the 109 certainly could compete with the P-51, even the Spitfire. You couldn't follow the Spitfire in a tight turn upwards.  You couldn't follow it. But we knew exactly the Spitfire also had shortcomings. In the beginning when they dived away, they had problems with the carburetor.  cshhht shhht cht cht cht (shows engine cutting out) . Until they came up to speed.  So every airplane has some problems in some areas, and if you know it, you can overcome it.    

Q: Mr. Rall, Can you give us the impression you had with the Focke Wulf, the 190, and especially the long nose, the Dora.
A: Ja.  The 190, I had one ride in the 190 - long nose.  The 190 was a very stable aircraft.  It had a very good weapons arrangement, you know they had two guns on top of the engine and two guns at the root of the wing.  And a very stable undercarriage.  It had a much better cockpit, a more comfortable cockpit.  And it had a rotating engine. No problems with the cooling system with this type.  Focke Wulf was a good airplane and the long nose was even better, for high altitude.  But I cannot give you too more, I flew it once, when I was in fighter leader school.  By the way, the long nose came too late, anyway.

Q: Mr. Rall, what was the best tactic against the P-47?
A: Against the P-47?  Shoot him down!    
P-47 was not a big problem.  The problem was if you were chased by the P-47, he was fast in a dive, had a higher structural strength.  You couldn't stand that you know?  And they came closer in a dive, because she was faster.  But P-47 was a big ship, you know? No doubt.  But in a position where you chase him, there was no equivalent condition.  By the way, ehh, this was <## garbled: 06:5 tape 4> thing talking about the P-47.  
Years later, I was in Maxwell for the Gathering of Eagles in United States, they called some pilots from all over.  By the way, I met there your Finnish ace, in Maxwell.  There was the French one, there was Gabby Gabreski from the Americans and so forth.  And there, I had to give a lecture about this flight, about this mission, and there was Gabby Gabreski.  And he said "wait a minute, I was in this air battle!"
You know Gabby Gabreski, was he number one in the United States Air Force. He passed away already.  And he said, "I was in this battle" and we figured out the 8th Air Force only had two P-47 groups.  The one was Gabby Gabreski but the Gabby Gabreski, his group, had the task to wait up around the airfields. The problem was for us, when we had dogfight over the clouds and fought a bit, and you run out of fuel - red light, you have to get down and you then have to find a base. Because you don't know where you are over the clouds, you know, in this dogfighting. And then you come down, and Gabby, circled many bases and just waited.  When we came back, no ammunition, gear down, no fuel.  We lost a lot of pilots in the final approach down.  And the other group was Hub Zemke, he was top cover of the 8th Air Force.  He flew up at 10 000 meters and this is what I was confronted with.  To make the long story short we became good friends after the war, and his son still living, they know, you know he says to me, "Gunther is a member of our family." Thats great.


Q: The Me-109, how did the plane feel like, when you went in the cockpit and closed the canopy... How did the plane feel like.
A: You know, you might get nervous until you take off.  You are excited, you as a leader you have to make all arrangements.  Once you get full power, get in the air and retract the gear, then you are concentrating, no feelings, you know?  Then you are concentrating on your mission.

Q: The plane it had these wing slats and you mentioned they pop open uneven?
A: Two meter slots on fore wings.  The reason was to increase the lift during low speed take off and landing.  To reduce the length of runway you need.  In the air, if you make rough turns, just by gravity, the outer slot might get out.  You can correct it immediately by release of stick, you know? Only little bit, psssssssht, its in, then its gone.  You have to know that.  And if you know it, you prevent it.
Q: Did you use this extra lift from the slats in combat?
A: Not at all. I mean, its also a matter of experience of the pilot, you know?  When I think of the Russian... This is another thing, of the Russian airfields. In the wintertime you had mud and fall. MUD.  And we had problems. When you takeoff, you roll and roll, you know?  You get the mud into the cooler, ja?  And we tried to overcome this by all technical gimmicks which didn't work.  You get earth into the cooler, and then can see your temperature, psssshhht!, runs up.  Its very bad.  In wintertime, we had short fields, snow and ice on them.  But all these old experienced pilots, they managed that, you know?  For a young pilot it was a problem, no doubt. The environmental conditions for pilot, besides the air pressure.  Where are you?  How do you live? And I can tell you there is a big difference, whether you are in the north or in a stationary situation where you have your bed and your food and whatever it is.  Or you are in the south... My group, in two years, had 44 different places, most selected from the air.  You think it might be a good... You know you get your order, have a look for a airfield because the army plans this and this.  You don't have a solid front line in the south.  You have always tanks and this, and in between is nothing.  So you have to look for an airfield which you have to find two days later, you know?  Until the army comes there. The south of Russia, the Caucasus, there are not very predominant geographical marks on the ground. Its hard to find it. Navigation is not that easy in the south, or in Russia, as it is here, where you had concrete landmarks.

Q:  How many combat sorties did you fly in Reich defense?
A: In tour the war?
Q: Yes, you personally.
A: I flew about 800. You know we say a combat mission, is when you get contact with the enemy.  There are a lot of missions you fly around, and nothing happens, you wait.
Q:  But.. do you know the number, how many sorties did you fly against western allies in 1944...
A:  No, I cannot tell you, I dunno

Q: You flew in the same group as Bubi, in the war and also after the war.  How well did you know him?
A: Bubi Hartmann came to me as a Lieutenant, to the Caucuses.  He was a young 'un.  And it took him quite a time, until he get experienced, and then he was you know... And then when I was commander, he was a squadron leader of the 9th squadron and Krupinski and Obleser. (Raimo Malkamäki: Walter Krupinski was Staffelkapitän of 7./JG 52:n and Friedrich Obleser of 8./JG 52:n at the end of 1943. Krupinski had 197 victories, Obleser 120). All very famous guys, you know? Obleser later became chief of air staff in the new German Air Force, also (Raimo Malkamäki: After Rall in the 1970s). So I knew Bubi Hartmann very well.  When I went to the Reichverteidigung (Defence of the Reich) he (Hartmann) stayed there, he became wing commander and was captured by the Russians on the eastern front.  And he had a very, very bad time. 10 years.  And when he came we addressed him and he joined the German Air Force and one year later we  went together to the United States.  You could realize the difference, when he came back from Russia, you know. The eyes and nothing... And one year later he went to Arizona, it was different.

Q:  Do you still meet among the veterans, do you still have meetings.
A:  Sure.  We have uh, we have a German Fighter Pilots Association.  But, you know, if we would keep conservatively in a couple of years there would be no fighter pilots association any more.  So now we have a pilots association and at least 50% or more of the young squadron commanders are members.  So they carry on the tradition, even if the old guys pass away.  And we have different sections with different programs.  But overall, we meet once a year and it now becomes very international. Russians come, American English come, French come.  A lot of pilots come.

Q: He was asking about Gerhardt Barkhorn. .
A: Barkhorn was a good friend of mine. (ed. commander of II/JG52, ace of 301 victories, died in auto accident in the 1980s)   Unfortunately, he, his wife and a friend got killed in a car accident long after the war.  He was a very talented pilot. I had the third group, he had the second group.  We were very close in south Russia.  I was at Taman, a Kuban briddehead and he was down at Anapa. He was once my witness. You know, I mention this Krimskaya battles. Heavy tank battles and heavy air operations.  And I turned and I shot one down´. But my wingman was somewhere else.  And all of a sudden Barkhorn said "I saw it, I am your witness."  He didn't know that he was next to me but he flew then.. Again, he was a good friend, but unfortunately he's dead.  

Q:  Do you still meet all the mechanics, all the mechanics from the wartime?
A: Sure.  We're spread out all over.  We had a lot of <##ostwinds???? 19:45 tape 4>. And just to give you example, there is a master sargeant. He lives in Berlin and he calls me every six months and we meet. But Ostman, NCO pilot, he was shot down, he was in Russia as prisoner.  He came back, he went to Brazil, he was a great steel expert.  And, two years ago he came to my place and praised me.  And since then we call and its very nice..

Rall:  I thank you very much for your attention.

[Hummingbird]

Günther Rall

Short private interview

Jukka Kauppinen had the pleasure of meeting mr. Rall for a short moment in private interview for a Finnish aviation magazine. Many thanks for that!

Do you have any message to the youth?

Try to keep peace. It is difficult but it is the only solution.

You still follow the situation in the world?

Yes, I'm not very happy about that. I saw after WW2 human being won't learn. That seems very pessimistic situations.
When you started in new Luftwaffe, what was the spirit?
The spirit was, Germany was integrated in the wester alliance. We wanted to contribute to NATO. We were beginners in that. We felt it was important and wanted to work. NATO was - IS - an excellent on that.

Your hobbies, do they include flying?

I've made my flying But when I'm in America, it is much easier to fly. Many of my friends there own aircraft and when I'm there, they take me with them and let me fly. But they sit next to me, on controls. But that can't be done in Germany.

Is the skill of flying still in there?

Yes, unbroken. I don't fly risky things anymore, just with friends, and I'm the copilot. But it is fun, nice. But it doesn't fly often anymore.

When you think of your experiences, do you have any dreams in the nights?

Not anymore but certainly the war was there for a long time, all the pressure. In the mind. Still, I always say that you can never get rid of this war, because it was most important time of our lives. Age of 21 to 27 - you are in combat or in hospital. This had its results.

You joined Army in 36, Luftwaffe in 38. This was a career choise to be in the army?

Ja, I was in the army, it was the army of soldiers. Then Hitler came. I wanted to go into air force, because I wanted to fly. And when I was in the Air Force, then I wanted to get fighter pilot. I think this is my temperament to be a fighter pilot. And it was by choise.

How do you think young boys got back civilian life after the war, because many had gotten into the army in middle of their studies?

It was difficult, you know. But let me tell you, there was great spirit. Germany lost the war, 80 % of the cities were flat, ja? We were not so much orientated to money, money, money, like today. It was great spirit, build it up, and come back to life. It was great spirit. Even housewives built up houses - it was tremendous get-together. But now you know, different. Today's world is what do I get. Those days they asked what can I give. Different life.

What about the proposed common army for the EU and the groth of EU?

Let me tell you, I don't know the detail problems. I think it is important that NATO is still federation, bridge, between United States and Europe. Spending to the east is also important, but it takes a long time. That is parallel relationship and it is important, there is no doubt. But we should always remember, that NATO is an important thing and it is binding between US and Europe.

When the new Luftwaffe was formed in 1956 and you went to US for training, what the relations were then?

Friendly! Nothing else. Let me tell you, I made great friends there over the years and I go every year three times there. All the aviators, test pilots, civilians, great friends. Let me tell you, the problem we have right now, between US, Germany and France, this will go away, we know we have to work together. But this does not have any impact on personal friendships.
There was a lot of humour too, in the 50s, when you were in the US. For example the newspaper article "Göring's finest fly again".
They didn't take very seriously. Hey come on', now we are here? We talked about war without sentimentals. Just facts, how did you do this. But that is not a theme anymore, you know. We now fly jets and it is different.

You have flown in Norway, in Denmark - but have you been ever in Finland?

No, this is the first time. It's been great. You know, we had, in Germany, high reputation. Particularly your marshall Mannerheim. My generation had greatest respect for him.

[Hummingbird]

Johannes Steinhoff


This article was written by Colin D. Heaton forWorld War II Magazine.

Johannes Steinhoff was truly one of the most charmed fighter pilots in the Luftwaffe. His exploits became legendary though his wartime career ended tragically. Steinhoff served in combat from the first days of the war through April 1945. He flew more than 900 missions and engaged in aerial combat in over 200 sorties, operating from the Western and Eastern fronts, as well as in the Mediterranean theater. Victor over 176 opponents, Steinhoff was himself shot down a dozen times and wounded once. Yet he always emerged from his crippled and destroyed aircraft in high spirits. He opted to ride his aircraft down on nearly every occasion, never trusting parachutes.
Steinhoff lived through lengthy exposure to combat, loss of friends and comrades, the reversal of fortune as the tide turned against Germany, and political dramas that would have broken the strongest of men. Pilots such as Steinhoff, Hannes Trautloft, Adolf Galland and many others fought not only Allied aviators but also their own corrupt leadership, which was willing to sacrifice Germany's best and bravest to further personal and political agendas. In both arenas, they fought a war of survival.
Aces like Steinhoff risked death every day to defend their nation and, by voicing their opposition to the unbelievable decisions of the Third Reich high command, risked their careers and even their lives. Steinhoff was at the forefront of the fighter pilots' revolt of January 1945, when Galland was replaced as general of fighters. A group of the most decorated and valiant Luftwaffe leaders con-fronted the Luftwaffe commander and deputy Führer, Reichsmarschall Herman Göring, with a list of demands for the survival of their service. Their main concern was the Reichsmarschall's lack of understanding and unwillingness to support his pilots against accusations of cowardice and treason. They were being blamed for Germany's misfortunes. Steinhoff's frankness got him threatened with court-martial and banished to Italy, with similar penal-ties imposed upon others in the mutiny.
Steinhoff's recovery from injuries suffered during a near-fatal crash in a Messerschmitt Me-262 jet near the end of the war again illustrated his strength of will and character and his amazing ability to overcome all that life could throw at him. His story is an inspiring tale of moral and personal courage. Steinhoff died in February 1994, shortly after this interview. He is survived by two brothers, Bernd and Wolf Steinhoff, his widow Ursula, and his daughter Ursula Steinhoff Bird, wife of retired Col-orado State Senator Michael Bird. During the interview, Steinhoff spoke candidly about many topics, including the war, his superi-ors and his philosophy about his country's role in the postwar period following the collapse of the Third Reich.

WWII: When and where were you born, General?

Steinhoff: I was born in Bottendorf, Thuringia, on September 15, 1913. This is a region in the middle of Germany.

WWII: Describe your family, childhood and education.

Steinhoff: My father was a millworker, mostly agricultural work, while my mother was a traditional housewife. She was truly a wonderful lady. My youngest brother, Bernd, is an engineer and lives in Columbus, Ohio, in the United States. My other brother, Wolf, is a doctor, and he lives here in Germany. I have two sisters, one living in Germany and the other deceased. With regard to my education, I attended Gymnasium, which is a little more involved than your traditional high school, where I studied the classics and languages such as French, English, Latin and Greek. It was truly a classical education that later served me well.

WWII: Your English is impeccable. How did you perfect it?

Steinhoff: I really picked up most of my English in the country-side and during the war, speaking to captured aviators and such. After the war I went to school to become more fluent.

WWII: What made you want to become a fighter pilot?

Steinhoff: Well, I studied how to become a teacher, in order to educate people, but with the conditions in Germany at that time when I was a young man I wanted to work but could not find a job. I then joined the armed forces and enlisted in the navy, where I served for one year. I was in the navy with another friend of ours, Dietrich Hrabak, and we both became naval aviation cadets. Later, we were both transferred to the Luftwaf fe after Göring became the commander in chief.

WWII: When did you start flying?

Steinhoff: That was in 1935, along with Hrabak, Trautloft, Galland, [Gunther] Lützow and many others. We trained at the same school and became friends with many other flight students, most of whom became very successful and highly decorated aces. Unfortunately, not all of them survived the war, and every year we lose someone else.

WWII: Describe your first combat. What was it like for you?

Steinhoff: It was late 1939, well after the Polish campaign, while I was assigned in Holland. We were flying against the Royal Air Force (RAF) bombers that were attacking coastal industry. That was long before the Battle of Britain, but I could see that things were going to get more difficult. I attacked a flight of Vickers Wellington bombers and shot one down. It was rather uneventful, but later I shot down two more over Wilhelmshaven, when I was Staffelkapitän of 10/JG.26 "Schlageter" [10th Staffel (Squadron) of Jagdgeschwader (Fighter Wing) 26] toward the end of 1939. I was then transferred to 4/JG.52 MAY 1998 WORLD WAR 11 29 in February 1940, where I remained until the start of the French campaign and the Battle of Britain.

WWII: What was fighting on the Channel coast like?

Steinhoff: Well, the British were born fighters-very tough, well trained and very sportive. They were brave, and I never fought against better pilots at any time during the war, including the Americans.

WWII: What was the difference between fighting the Americans and the British?

Steinhoff: Well, first of all, when we fought the RAF, it was almost evenly matched in fighters against fighters, so true dogfights, even in the Schwarm [German fighter formation], were possible. That was the truest test of men and their machines, and only the best survived. You learned quickly, or you did not come back. When the Americans arrived, they came over in such force that by the time I arrived back from Russia to fight them, there was no opportunity to engage in that kind of sportive contest. Attacking hundreds of [Boeing] B-17 and [Consolidated] B-24 bombers with fighter escorts was not what I considered sportive, although I must admit it had many moments of excitement and sheer terror.

WWII: In your opinion, what was the reason for the Luftwaffe's failure to gain air superiority over Britain in 1940?

Steinhoff: There were several factors. First, there was the range limitation of our fighters. After arriving on station, we had about 20 minutes of combat time before we had to return home, and the British knew it. Second, we were sent on many bomber escort mis-sions, which eliminated our advantage of speed and altitude, both of which are essential to a fighter pilot's success, and we therefore lost the element of surprise. Another factor was the British use of radar, which was a shock to us pilots, although our leadership knew about it. This early warning system allowed the British to concen-trate their smaller force with greater flight time over the opera-tional area, engaging us at the most vulnerable moments. Another problem which hindered our success was Göring, who would not allow the war to be prosecuted according to logic. One example was when he altered the Luftwaffe's targets from military and RAF targets to cities and docks, which proved disastrous in many ways.

WWII: How was it different fighting the British from the Soviets?

Steinhoff: The Soviets were disciplined, principled and somewhat intelligent, but not well trained in tactics. They were very brave for the most part, but unlike the British and Americans, they would break off combat after only a few minutes and a couple of rotations. The Soviet pilot was for the most part not a born fighter in the air.

WWII: From what I understand, all chivalry and sportsmanship was absent from the war in Russia; is that correct?

Steinhoff: Absolutely correct. In fighting the Soviets, we fought an apparatus, not a human being-that was the difference. There was no flexibility in their tactical orientation, no individual freedom of action, and in that way they were a little stupid. If we shot down the leader in a Soviet fighter group, the rest were simply sitting ducks, waiting to be taken out.

WWII: Ivan Kozhedub, the top Allied ace of the war, once stated that, when he fought against the Luftwaffe, the German pilots seemed to work better as a team, whereas the Soviets applied only a single method of combat, which he tried to change. Do you agree?

Steinhoff: Yes, that too is correct. We fought as a team from the beginning. We had excellent training schools and great combat leaders from the Spanish Civil War, as well as the early campaigns in Poland and the West, who led by example. We really teamed our trade during the Battle of Britain, and that knowledge saved many German lives.

WWII: Why was the Russian Front such a hardship, since the Western Allies initially had much better aircraft and pilots?

Steinhoff: Well, the Soviet pilots did get better. In fact, there were some hotshot pilots formed in the famous Red Banner units, which had some of the best pilots in the world. I fought against them in the Crimea and Caucasus later. But to answer your question, the hardest thing about the Russian Front was the weather, that damned cold. The second thing, and probably the most important, was the knowledge that if you were shot down or wounded and became a prisoner of war-that is, if they did not kill you first-you would have it very bad. There was no mutual respect. You were safe only on your side of the lines. The Soviets did not treat our men very well after they were cap-tured, but then again as we have learned, the Soviets we captured did not always fare well either, which was unfortunate. At least in fighting against the Americans and British, we understood that there was a similar culture, a professional respect. But with the Soviets, this was unheard of. It was a totally different war.

WWII: So, unlike the British and Americans, the Soviets did not treat fellow pilots and officers as gentlemen?

Steinhoff: It was definitely not there. There was no mutual respect. The Americans and British treated us as gentlemen, as we did our enemy pilots when they were captured. The Soviets had no concept of chivalry as a whole.

WWII: How did the Russian winter affect operations?

Steinhoff: Oh, it was very difficult. In many cases we had no operations. The cold would freeze all machinery and moving parts. Sometimes we could not fly because the snow was piled so high that we had no way to remove it. It was very poor weather, and navigation was absolutely impossible. This and the cold were the greatest handicaps. That was absolutely the worst time.

WWII: Some of the men you flew with became legends. For instance, in 1940 in France you commanded a young pilot named Hans-Joachim Marseille. What do you remember about him?

Steinhoff: Marseille was in my wing, 4/JG.52, just before the Battle of Britain and was there shortly after it started. I was his squadron leader, and I watched him. I knew he was a brilliant guy, very intelligent, very quick and aggressive, but he spent too much time looking for the girls, and his mind was not always on operations. He actually had to be taken off flight status on more than one oc-casion because he was so exhausted from his nights on the town, if you know what I mean.

WWII: So you would say he was a playboy?

Steinhoff: He was the perfect playboy, but a real fighter. But he was an individual, not a team player. He had seven victories when I fired him, not because he was not good, but because he was shot down four times while getting those victories. He had no concept of Rot-tenflieger [i.e., a wingman's responsibility], and many men did not want to fly with him as their wmgman, which is very bad for morale. I thought the best thing for him was to transfer him away from the women, and he became a legend in North Africa, of course, winning the Diamonds [to the Knight's Cross] and scoring 158 victories. He was a true character and was the epitome of the First World War fighter pilot, but we were not fighting the First World War.

WWII: I know this is difficult, but which of the men you flew with, in your opinion, became the best leaders?

Steinhoff: That would be impossible to answer, as we never had any really bad fighter leaders. You could not reach that position if you were not tested and deemed competent.

WWII: You later took over command of JG.77 in the Mediterranean after the death of Joachim Muencheberg on March 23, 1943. Did you know him also?

Steinhoff: Yes, he was very good and an outstanding leader, very successful. He was killed when his Me-109 lost a wing in combat over Tunisia, fighting against the Americans. I took over the unit, which I had served in before, as you already know.

WWII: You had many meetings with Göring. What was your per-sonal opinion of his leadership of the Luftwaffe?

Steinhoff: Göring was a good, brilliant leader before the war started. He was a great ace from the first war, and he was very en-ergetic and important in the buildup of the Luftwaffe in the 1930s, but during the Battle of Britain he became lazy. Göring started collecting his artwork, diamonds and precious stones and was no longer interested in the operation of the Luftwaffe. Toward the end of the war he was a nuisance, and I personally hated him. Many pilots died needlessly because of him, killed before they were able to lead. I went with Galland, Latzow, Trautloft and others to Berlin to see General Robert Ritter von Greim to have Göring removed and replaced, but this did not happen. Greim told us in January 1945 that it was too late, and that Adolf Hitler would never remove one of his oldest and most loyal friends from his post. This was what eventually led to the fighters' revolt against Göring, and he threatened to court-martial me and told Lützow that he would be shot for treason. Hitler ordered me, or rather banished me, to Italy for my own safety along with Lützow, and Trautloft was sent packing back to the East. Galland was replaced as General der Jagdflieger [general of fighters] by Colonel Gordon Gollob, who was a competent fighter and leader, but was a fervent supporter of Hitler and a nasty little man who was hated by almost everyone, including me. Needless to say, none of us Kommodores were very enthusiastic about it, and we refused to accept it. All of the leaders remained loyal to Galland and stayed in contact with him, which infuriated Gollob and Göring, since it showed that the highest ranking and most decorated men in the fighter force were still going to do things their way.

WWII: I have been informed by all of the alte Karneraden [old comrades] that Gollob was an egomaniac who was marginally capable as a leader but did not gain the trust of his men. Is that true?

Steinhoff: Well, I will say this, then I will say nothing else about Gollob. Losses soared under his leadership everywhere he went, much like Göring in the first war. He placed leaders in command of units not because of their competence, but due to their loyalty to the Nazi Party, which were very few in the Jagdwaffe [fighter arm].

WWII: Do you feel that Galland's appointment as general of the fighters was good for the service, and if so, why?

Steinhoff: Definitely. Galland was a very energetic man, a strong leader and great fighter, successful, loyal to his men and a most hon-orable and honest gentleman. He was never awed by Hitler or swayed by Göring, and he always answered truthfully when they questioned him on any subject, regardless of how unpopular the truth might have been. Galland was a visionary who knew how to turn the tide in the air war and how to rebuild the fighter force, but his standing beside his pilots against Göring and Hitler, as well as many others, gave Hitler cause to replace him, which was a bad mistake. Honesty in Berlin was not always fashionable.

WWII: Tell about the occasions on which you met Hitler-what was your impression of him?

Steinhoff: I first met Hitler around September 3, 1942, when he awarded me the Oak Leaves [to the Knight's Cross]. He asked those of us present about the war, which we were supposed to be winning, and what we thought about the new territory being incorporated into the Reich in the east.
I mentioned something to the effect that "I hope the Führer will not become too attached to it, because I don't think we will be taking up long-term residence." He looked at me as if he was going to suffer a stroke. When he asked me to clarify my statement, I simply told him that since the United States had entered the war, and they, along with Britain, were supplying Russia, and we had no method of attacking their industry beyond the Urals, I did not think we would keep making great gains. He sat silent for a moment, then said something like, "We will finish Russia soon, and turn our attentions to the West once again. They will see that supporting Bolshevism is not to their benefit." And then we were dismissed. I met with him again outside Stalingrad a few weeks later when he toured the front. He told me: "Now I have Russia, now I have the Caucasus. I am going to penetrate the River Volga; then after that the rest of Russia will be mine." I remember looking at the others around us and thinking that this guy was nuts! I met Hitler the next time on July 28, 1944, when I received the Swords to the Knight's Cross. That was a week after the bomb plot to kill him, and he was not the same man, perhaps more withdrawn and living in a fantasy where the war was concerned. All I wanted was to get my medals and get the hell out of there. I could not stand him. Well, the next time I was summoned to Hitler we Kommodores were in Berlin to meet with him and Göring just prior to the revolt. He was pacing back and forth, mumbling about the weapons we had, how we would show the Allies a thing or two, and so on. It was very depressing to know that our country was in the hands of this madman and the lu-natics around him. You know, after the July 20 plot to kill him, we were never allowed in his presence with our sidearms, which was a part of our service uniform. He trusted no one.

WWII: Do you feel that Hitler was indifferent to the plight of his people, the soldiers and the situation he created for himself?

Steinhoff: Yes, as you said, the situation he created for himself. He could have cared less about anyone else. But it was our fate to pay for his crimes, and Germany will never live that down.

WWII: It is my understanding that despite the abuses hurled at the Luftwaffe by Göring and Hitler, the fighter force did have sup-porters among the Wehrmacht. For instance, General Hasso von Manteuffel stated many times that his panzer troops could have gained nothing if not for the Luftwaffe and that, without the industry to produce aircraft and the schools and leaders to train new pilots, the war was lost. Albert Speer also agreed. What is your opinion?

Steinhoff: They were absolutely correct, but we were receiving the blame, and most of it came from Göring, hence the revolt. He made all of the grand promises, and he boasted to Hitler that his men could accomplish anything at any time. Unfortunately, he did not consult us before he made these grand overtures.

WWII: What, if any, changes did you see after the United States entered the war, and what was your opinion about it?

Steinhoff: When this happened we were in the middle of the first Russian winter, and we were too busy to think about it. I was just south of Moscow when I heard the news. However, it later penetrated my mind that this was a decisive step. The Americans had tremendous willpower and an unmatched industrial capacity for building big bombers, fighters, ships and so on. It was more or less the end of the war--only time determined how long we would survive.

WWII: You transferred to the Western Front after a couple of years in Russia and the Mediterranean. How was fighting in the West then different from your experiences in 1940?

Steinhoff: Well, I can tell you, as soon as I took over command of JG.77 I was shot down on my first mission while attacking B-24 Liberators, and I knew right then that it was a totally different war from 1940. I also realized, as my plane tumbled out of control and I took to my parachute for the first and last time, just how much I had forgotten. It was different fighting the Soviets as opposed to the combined British and American forces, even though the Soviets outnumbered us even more. The Western Allies had improved their already first-rate equipment. I had also forgotten how flexible they were and how they could alter their tactics to fit the situation and orchestrate brilliant attacks.

WWII: Why did the high command not consult the Kommodores and fighter leadership, who had the knowledge and experience, before implementing these absurd orders and recommendations?

Steinhoff: That is a question you historians will continue to ask long after we are all dead. I think that the mentality in Berlin was one of pride and ego. But at that time it was too late anyway.

WWII: From your wide experience, which aircraft was the most difficult to attack?

Steinhoff: The B-17 Flying Fortress without a doubt. They flew in defensive boxes, a heavy defensive formation, and with all of their heavy .50-caliber machine guns they were dangerous to approach. We finally adopted the head-on attack pioneered by Egon Mayer and Georg Peter Eder, but only a few experts could do this successfully, and it took nerves of steel. Then you also had the long-range fighter escorts, which made life difficult, until we flew the Me-262 jets armed with four 30mm cannon and 24 R4M rockets. Then we could blast huge holes in even the tightest formation from outside the range of their defensive fire, inflict damage, then come around and finish off the cripples with cannon fire.

WWII: Please describe your humorous encounter with a Lockheed P-38 pilot named Widen in Italy in 1944.

Steinhoff: This is a good story. I was test-flying an Me-109 with my aide near our base at Foggia. This was before I had been exiled from Germany, during my first tour as Kommodore of JG.77. Well, we were attacked at low level by a flight of P-38 Lightnings, about 100 American fighters in all, but the two of us figured, why not attack? We turned into them, and I flew through their formation going in the opposite direction, getting good strikes on a couple of them. I poured a good burst into this P-38 and the pilot rolled over, and I saw him bail out. I had this on gun camera also. Well, he was picked up and made a POW, and I invited him to my tent for a drink and dinner, as well as to spend the night. We drank some of the local wine... and drank and drank. I thought to myself, "What am I going to do with this guy?" Well, it was long after midnight, so I lay down in my tent and stretched my legs so I could reach his head. He woke up and said, "Don't worry, I won't run away, you have my word as an officer and a gentleman. Besides, you got me too drunk." We slept, and he kept his word, and I never placed a guard on him.

WWII: So you subdued your opponent with alcohol?

Steinhoff: Yes, that's right, and it worked very well, you know. He was a very likable man, and I was very pleased to have the victory, but as I told him, I was even more pleased to see him uninjured and safe.

WWII: Of all the Allied fighters you encountered, which was the most difficult to handle with a good pilot at the controls?

Steinhoff: The Lightning. It was fast, low profiled and a fantastic fighter, and a real danger when it was above you. It was only vulnerable if you were behind it, a little below and closing fast, or turning into it, but on the attack it was a tremendous aircraft. One shot me down from long range in 1944. That would be the one, although the P-51 [Mustang] was deadly because of the long range, and it could cover any air base in Europe. This made things difficult, especially later when flying the jets.

WWII: How did you get stuck as the recruiting officer for JV44?

Steinhoff: Well, after the death of [Walter] Nowotny, I took over command of JG.7 in December 1944, after the jets were dispersed to individual wings. I chose various squadron leaders, such as [Erich] Rudorffer, [Gerhard] Barkhorn, [Heinz] Baer and others. After Operation Bodenplatte and the fighters' revolt, I was, of course, sent back to Italy and fired from my job with the jets. Galland recalled me when he had permission from Hitler to create his own "Squadron of Experts," which was not the original intent, but this is the way it worked out. Galland gave me full authorization to scrounge and recruit the best pilots possible. I went to every bar and recreation hall, even a few hospitals and forward units, until I had about 17 or so volunteers, with more on the way. The list was impressive, and among this group were two or three inexperienced jet pilots, but they showed promise.

WWII: So the Squadron of Experts was just that?

Steinhoff: Yes, most of us had many kills, and nine of us had over 100 victories, and a couple, such as Baer, had over 200, and Barkhorn had 300. Everyone except a couple had the Knight's Cross or higher decorations and hundreds of missions, and most were senior officers led by a squadron leader with the rank of lieutenant general. It was quite a unit, and I don't think there will ever be another one like it.

WWII: Were the tactics pretty much the same with JV44 as with JG.7, or were there differences in attack strategy?

Steinhoff: Pretty much the same, I would say. The only significant difference was that we could pretty much create our own tactics on the spot to counter any new threat, whereas in conventional units you had to wait for a recommendation to be approved, and then the tactics authorized, which wasted valuable time. We found that attacking from the flank, entering the enemy formation from the side and attacking with rockets, brought many good results. It was like blasting geese with a shotgun. Attacking from the rear was also good, although targets offered a lower profile. When attacking from the side, we would lead the bombers a little, fire the rockets, then pull up or away and swing around for a rear pass on the survivors, where we fired our 30mm cannon. This would shred the bombers' wings or explode their bombs. Against fighters, one cannon shell was usually sufficient to bring it down.

WWII: Do you feel that the Me-262, if produced in larger numbers earlier, would have had any effect on the war?

Steinhoff: This is a very good and difficult question. Even if the jets were built in greater numbers, we did not have the trained pilots, or even the fuel. It was too late in the war, and we could not win. However, if we'd had the jets in 1943, things would have been different, I am sure, but that was not to be. That was our fate.

WWII: I spoke to Hajo Herrmann, who thought that the debate over the Me-262 between bomber and fighter commands was nonsense. He said that even though arguments could be made in favor of its use as either a fighter or a bomber, it should have been focused on as a fighter so late in the war. How do you feel about that debate?

Steinhoff: It was only possible to use the jet airplane as a fighter, as Galland was able to prove later in the war. This is right, because it was too late.

WWII: What did you think of the possibility of Heinrich Himmler and the SS taking over the operational control of the jets?

Steinhoff: Oh, yes, we were aware of this, but that was an insane idea. That was nonsense, it was not possible. The training time required and the personnel made it unfeasible. It was simply nonsense.

WWII: After the fighters' revolt, how did the fighter pilots feel about the war? What was their morale like?

Steinhoff: Gunther Lützow, Galland, Traut-loft and myself, as well as many others, were deeply involved. We were upset because the Luftwaffe was torn to pieces. Morale was very poor, Galland was standing all alone, and the importance of the fighters was negligible. It was a very bad time.

WWII: How many times were you shot down during the war?

Steinhoff: I was shot down 12 times. In the 13th incident I almost died from a crash.

WWII: How many times did you bail out?

Steinhoff: I only bailed out once. I never trusted the parachutes. I always landed my damaged planes, hoping not to get bounced on the way down when I lost power. I was wounded only once lightly, but never seriously until my crash.

WWII: Tell us about that near-fatal crash.

Steinhoff: Many writers have covered that, but hardly anyone ever asked me about it, except for Raymond Toliver, so here is the true story. I was taking off in formation on April 18, 1945, for my 900th mission. Galland was leading the flight, which included Gerhard Barkhorn, [Klaus] Neumann, [Eduard] Schallmoser, [Ernst] Fahrmann and myself. We were to fly formation and engage an American bomber formation. Our airfield had suffered some damage over the last several days due to Allied bombing and strafing attacks, and as my jet was picking up speed, the left undercarriage struck a poorly patched crater. I lost the wheel, and the plane jumped perhaps a meter into the air, so I tried to raise the remaining right wheel. I was too low to abort takeoff, and my speed had not increased enough to facilitate takeoff. I knew as I came toward the end of the runway that I was going to crash. The 262 hit with a great thump, then a fire broke out in the cockpit as it skidded to a stop. I tried to unfasten my belts when an explosion rocked the plane, and I felt an intense heat. My 24 R4M rockets had exploded, and the fuel was burning me alive. I remember popping the canopy and jumping out, flames all around me, and I fell down and began to roll. The explosions continued, and the concussion was deafening, knocking the down as I tried to get up and run away. I cannot describe the pain.

WWII: After you escaped from the plane, you were taken to the hospital?

Steinhoff: Yes, sure. They thought I would die. Even the surgeons had no idea that I would survive, but I tricked them.

WWII: For years afterward you continued to have surgery to correct the damage. Could you tell us about that?

Steinhoff: In 1969 a British doctor, a plastic surgeon, made new eyelids for me from the skin on my forearm. From the time of the crash until this time I could not close my eyes, so I wore dark glasses to protect them. I had dozens of surgeries over the years, and I recently had a heart bypass, as you know, which delayed our interview. I am now full of spare parts, you could say.

WWII: You still meet frequently with many of your friends and former enemies. Do you look forward to these gatherings?

Steinhoff: Yes. I used to meet with [Douglas] Bader, [Robert Stanford] Tuck and Johnny Johnson quite frequently, as well as many American aces such as [Francis] Gabreski, [Hubert] Zemke and others. We are all old men, wiser and appreciative that no one holds anyone to blame for anything. We are a small fraternity, and we are all good friends.

WWII: How many victories did you have confirmed during the war?

Steinhoff: I had 176 victories, with seven in the jet.

WWII: Well, all of your old comrades and former enemies respect you greatly, including Hajo Herrmann, who came to see you in the hospital after the crash. You knew him, didn't you?

Steinhoff: Yes, I met him once or twice. I knew who he was. He was a good man.

WWII: You finally retired in the 1970s after many decades of service. How did you get in-volved with the Bundesluftwaf fe after the war?

Steinhoff: That is a long story, but a good one. I spent two years in the hospital after the crash, and I was still in my bed when I was approached by Trautloft and others. They convinced me that I could do much more outside the hospital than inside, so I decided to once again wear a uniform. The Communist threat was still a large factor, and as years went by we saw the Cold War more clearly than you in America did. It was right next door to us.

WWII: You have written several successful books about the war, and you are interna-tionally famous and highly respected. How do you spend your time today in retirement?

Steinhoff: I used to go on many speaking engagements, traveling as you know to all of the seminars, speaking to young people and telling them about what we did. I like meeting young people. They are the future, and we should take care of them.

WWII: Soon you will celebrate your 80th birthday. What advice do you have for the younger generations today?

Steinhoff: Oh, that is a very good question. I would tell them this: Love your country and fight for your country. Believe in truth, and that is enough.


This article was written by Colin D. Heaton originally published in World War II Magazine in February 2000. Colin D. Heaton is currently working on a biography of Johannes Steinhoff with the help of the great ace's family.

[Hummingbird]

Ivan Kozhedub

By Jon Guttman for Aviation History Magazine

Air Marshal Ivan Kozhedub was one of only two Soviet fighter pilots to be awarded the Gold Star of a Hero of the Soviet Union three times during World War II. The other, Aleksandr Pokryshkin, had flown from the German invasion in the summer of 1941 through the end of the war, during which time he scored 59 aerial victories in MiG3s, Bell Airacobras, Lavochkin La-5s and Yakovlev Yak-9Us.
Ironically prevented from fighting because his skill as a pilot made him more useful as an instructor, Kozhedub did not fly his first combat mission until March 26, 1943. On February 19, 1945, he became the only Soviet pilot to shoot down a Messerschmitt Me-262 jet fighter and, on April 19, 1945, he downed two Focke-Wulf Fw-190s to bring his final tally to 62--the top Allied ace of the war.
In contrast to Aleksandr Pokryshkin, Ivan Kozhedub is associated with a single fighter type, the series of radialengine, wooden aircraft designed by Semyen Lavochkin. The last of them, La-7 No. 27, has, like its pilot, survived to graceful retirement-in the airplane's case at the Monino Air Museum.

AH: Could you share with us something of your youth and education?

Kozhedub: I was born on June 8, 1920, in the village of Obrazheyevska, Shostka district of the Sumy region in the Ukraine. I was the youngest of five children in our family. I had a hard time when I was a child and never had enough to eat as a teen-ager. I had to work all the time back then. My only toys were handmade stilts, a rag ball and skis made of barrel planks.
In 1934, I finished a seven-year school. At first, I wanted to go to art school in Leningrad, but realized that I'd hardly get through. For two years, I attended a school for young workers. In 1940, I graduated from the Shostka chemical technical school.

AH: When, then, did you develop an interest in aviation?

Kozhedub: A craving for the skies, which I could not identify as such at the time, was probably born in my heart when I was around 15. It was then that airplanes from a local flying club began to crisscross the sky over the village of Obrazheyevska. Later on, no matter what I might be doing--solving a difficult math problem or playing at ball--I would forget instantly about everything as soon as I heard the rumble of an aircraft motor.

AH: A lot of people are fascinated by aviation, but what caused you to take the big step from enthusiast to participant?

Kozhedub: In the 1930s, the Komsomol (Young Communist League) was a patron of aviation and, naturally enough, we were all crazy about flying. I remember well the words of my school teacher: "Choose the life of an outstanding man as a model, and try to follow his example in everything." For me, a boy of 16, and for thousands of other Soviet teen-agers, the famous pilot Valery Chkalov was such a man. The whole world admired his bold long distance flights in the Tupolev ANT-25, such as his 1936 flight from Moscow to Udd Island, Kamchatka--9,374 kilometers in 56 hours, 20 minutes--or his shorter but more hazardous flight of 8,504 km in 63 hours, 16 minutes from Moscow to Vancouver, Wash., via the North Pole, on June 18-20, 1937. He was also a fearless test pilot, and it was during a test flight that he lost his life on December 15, 1938.
Realizing full well that it would be difficult to attend a technical school and learn to fly at the same time, I still filed an application at the local club. That was in 1938, when the Japanese violated the Soviet frontier near Lake Khasan. That fact strengthened my desire to receive a second profession that would be needed in the event of war.

AH: Can you describe your training? How many flying hours did it take to qualify as a pilot? Was your training typical for a Soviet pilot, civil or military?

Kozhedub: At the beginning of 1940, 1 was admitted to the Chuguyev military aviation school. It was the beginning of a new life for me. At the flying club, we had just been working on the ABCs, whereas at the school, serious training was buttressed by tough military discipline. At our school, to become a pilot you had to fulfill a flying quota of about 100 hours.

AH: What was your perception of the state of Soviet aviation and general military preparedness prior to and in the months following the German invasion?

Kozhedub: Of course, we were young at the time. We believed that our country was absolutely ready to rebuff any aggression. Any fighting on our own territory was considered unthinkable. Everything we read or heard over the radio about the war to the west seemed very remote to us. Needless to say, at that time we did not know that more than 40,000 of the most talented military leaders had been killed by Stalin's purges a few years earlier. We realized what had happened much later. Every report about the retreat of our troops made our hearts bleed.

AH: Did the Soviet Army Air Force (VVS-RKKA) undergo any changes in structure, philosophy or strategy during the war years? If so, what changes did you notice?

Kozhedub: The experience of hostilities in the early months of the war required a change in the tactics and organizational structure of fighter aviation. The famous formula of air-to-air combat was: "Altitude-speed-maneuver-fire." A flight of two fighters became a permanent combat tactical unit in fighter aviation. Correspondingly, a flight of three planes was replaced with a flight of four planes. The formations of squadrons came to include several groups, each of which had its own tactical mission (assault, protection, suppression, air defense, etc.). The massive use of aviation, its increasing influence on the course of combat and operations, required that its efforts be concentrated in those major specialties.
Fighter air corps making up part of air armies were set up for that purpose. Hundreds of fighters took part in crucial tactical and strategic operations. Quite often, air-to-air combat developed into a virtual air battle. The arsenal of combat methods used by Soviet fighter aces came to include vertical maneuvers, multilayered formations and others. Out of the 44,000 aircraft lost by Germany on the Soviet-German front, 90 percent were downed by fighters.

AH: Did you request a transfer to the front as a combat flier, or were you given such duty by your commanders?

Kozhedub: I requested a transfer to the front more than once. But the front required well-trained fliers. While training them for future battles, I was also training myself. At the same time, it felt good to hear of their exploits at the front. In late 1942, I was sent to learn to fly a new plane, the Lavochkin LaG-5. After March 1943, I was finally in active service.

AH: What was your first impression of the LaG-5, your first combat aircraft? Did it have any special quirks or idiosyncrasies?

Kozhedub: I got LaG-5 No. 75. Like other aircraft of our regiment, it had the words "Named after Valery Chkalov" inscribed on its fuselage. Those planes were built on donations from Soviet people. But my plane was different. Other fliers had aircraft with three fuel tanks, which were lighter and more maneuverable, whereas my fivetank aircraft was heavier. But for a start its potential was quite enough for me, a budding flier. Later on, I had many occasions to admire the strength and staying power of this plane. It had excellent structural mounting points and an ingenious fire-fighting system, which diverted the exhaust gases into the fuel tanks, and once saved me from what seemed certain death.

AH: Did you know anything of the less-successful predecessor of the LaG-5, the LaGG-3? Did you ever fly that plane and, if so, how did it compare with the later Lavochkins?

Kozhedub: All those planes were one family. So naturally enough, every new generation flew higher and farther. However, I did not fly the LaGG-3 myself. I know this plane was designed by Lavochkin together with his colleagues, Gorbunov and Gudkov, in 1940. It had a water-cooled engine, and like all early models, was not faultless. Its successors, the La-5 and La-7, accumulated combat experience. They had air-cooled engines and were much more reliable.

AH: To what unit were you first assigned? How were you received by the men of the regiment?

Kozhedub: My first appointment was to the 240th Fighter Air Regiment (Istrebitelsky Aviatsy Polk, or IAP), which began combat operations on the first day of the war, on the Leningrad front. Since many graduates of the Chuguyev school served there, I did not feel out of place, not even at the beginning. Our pilot personnel included people of many nationalities. There were Belorussians, Tartars, Georgians, Russians and Ukrainians. We were all like one big family.

AH: What was the typical strength and organization of a Soviet VVS regiment (Polk) or squadron (Eskadril) during World War II?

Kozhedub: Since the war was teaching us its bitter lessons, we had to change tactics as we went along. Thus, considering the experience of the first battles, the Air Force went over from 60-plane regiments, which appeared to be too heavy, to regiments consisting of 30 fighters (three squadrons). Practice showed that this structure was better, both because it made the commander's job easier and because it ensured higher flexibility in repelling attacks.

AH: Your first week of combat was over the Kharkov sector, during the last great Soviet defeat prior to the decisive battle of Kursk. Allegedly, you yourself were badly shot-up during your first combat by German fighters. What was the state of morale among you and your comrades at this time?

Kozhedub: In my first combat, I did not get a single scratch, but my plane was badly damaged. My commander said, with good reason, "Make haste only when catching fleas." I did not heed his advice. It seemed to me I could down at least two or three enemy planes at one go. Carried away by the attack, I did not notice an umbrella of Messerschmitt Bf-110s approaching me from behind. Of course, that was a bitter experience and a serious lesson for me.
Despite general failures, our morale was quite high. Many, like myself, had their families in Nazi-occupied territory. We were all thirsting for revenge.

AH: What was your impression of the skill and courage of your Luftwaffe opponents at this time--and later? Did you perceive any changes in their skill and élan between 1943 and 1945?
Kozhedub: The sinister colors of the German Messerschmitt Bf-109s and Focke-Wulf Fw-190s with the drawings of cats, aces, arrows and skulls on their sides, were designed to scare Soviet pilots witless. But I didnt pay much attention to them, trying to guess as soon as possible the plans and methods of my enemy, and find weak spots in his tactics. However, I always respected the courage of the German aces. It would have been stupid to underrate the enemy, especially at the start of the war.
After August 1943, the supremacy in the air finally went over to the Soviet pilots and, by the end of the war, we were locking horns with hastily trained youths more and more often. The onetime conceit of invincibility claimed by Göring's aces had gone up in smoke.

AH: How did Soviet and German aircraft compare throughout the war? What type of enemy aircraft did you have a particular respect for?

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

AH: Describe a typical "day's work" for a Soviet fighter pilot. How many sorties did you normally fly per day?

Kozhedub: The phrase "day's work" does not fit in here, for we had to fly all day long. I myself was surprised at the potential endurance of the human body in an emergency. Three to four sorties a day during an offensive was quite routine. True, one sortie would be very different from the next.

AH: Your first success was over Kursk on July 6, 1943. What were the circumstances of that victory'?

Kozhedub: We were ordered to attack a group of Junkers Ju-87 dive bombers. I chose a "victim" and came in quite close to it. The main thing was to fire in time. Everything happened in a twinkling. It was only on the ground, among my friends, that I recalled the details of this battle. Caution is all-important and you have to turn your head 360 degrees all the time. The victory belonged to those who knew their planes and weapons inside out and had the initiative. On July 7, I downed a second plane and, on July 8, I destroyed another two Bf-109 fighters.

AH: The Battle of Kursk involved thousands of aircraft in a mammoth struggle for tactical control over the battlefield. What role did you and your comrades play toward the Soviet victory?

Kozhedub: In actual fact, I had my true baptism of fire near Kursk. We escorted bombers, fought enemy fighters and neutralized air defense batteries. The battle for Kursk was a landmark in the development of the forms and methods for operational and tactical use of Soviet aviation in the war years. In its first defensive stage, our airmen flew 70,219 sorties. Tactical aviation accounted for 76 percent of the total, long-range aviation for 18 percent, and air defense fighters for six percent. During that period, they destroyed 1,500 enemy planes. Our losses were 1,000 aircraft. During the counteroffensive, our flyers made 90,000 sorties, about 50 percent of which were designed to support attacking troops, and 31 percent to achieve supremacy in the air. The enemy lost up to 2,200 planes in that time.

AH: To what do you attribute your growing success thereafter?

Kozhedub: Young pilots often ask how they can learn to fly a fighter quickly; I came to the conclusion that the main thing is to master the technique of pilotage and firing. If a fighter pilot can control his plane automatically, he can correctly carry out a maneuver, quickly approach an enemy, aim at his plane precisely and destroy him. It is also important to be resourceful in any situation. At the first stage of combat skill, I dreamt of downing an enemy plane--the tactics of an air battle were theory to me. The second stage began with the training at the front before the Battle of Kursk. The fighting near the Kursk bulge was a new stage. The battle for the Dnieper was yet another.
Having become the commander of a squadron, I began to lead groups of planes and direct the actions of pilots during combat. The next stage was called lone-wolf operations. Being deputy commander of the regiment from the 1st Belorussian Front, I flew together with another pilot to the front lines in search of targets. There were many more stages like these. It is never too late to learn.

AH: On May 2, 1944, you received an La-5FN specially dedicated "In the name of Hero of the Soviet Union Lt.Col. N. Koniyev." You allegedly scored eight victories in seven days flying this aircraft. How much of an improvement over the La-5 was that La-5FN?

Kozhedub: It was, practically speaking, a simplified version of the La-5 developed in the same year, 1942. It had a boosted engine with direct fuel injection But it was important to me for different reasons. Vasily Koniyev, a beekeeper from the Bolshevik collective farm (Budarin district, Stalingrad region), bought it with his own money and asked that it be named after the nephew of the famous Marshal Vasily Konev, killed at the beginning of the war. Indeed, this plane was a lucky one for me. Out of the eight Nazi aircraft I destroyed while flying it, five were the much-vaunted Fw-190s.

AH: In July 1944, you were posted to the 1st Belorussian Front as vice commander to the 176th Guards Fighter Regiment, and received La-7 No. 27, in which you would score your final 17 victories. What were your command responsibilities; did they effect your flying habits?

Kozhedub: At first, I was upset by my new appointment but only until I found out that I could fly with aces who went on lone-wolf operations. Day in and day out, we would fly in the morning and analyze our sorties back at the squadrons at noon. At 9 p.m., we used to gather in the canteen, where the commander gave an account of the results of the day. In this regiment, I also began to team up with Dmitry Titarenko.
The 176th Guards Fighter Regiment carried out 9,450 combat missions, of which 4,016 were lone-wolf operations; it conducted 750 air battles, in which 389 enemy aircraft were shot down.

AH: How did the La-7 compare with its La-5-series predecessors?

Kozhedub: The La-7 had top-notch flying characteristics. It was a very obedient plane, which attained a high speed by the standards of those days. I must say that the La-7, the La-9 and Yak-3 were perfect planes. Their characteristics virtually reached the ceiling for piston-engine planes.

AH: For a wooden airplane, La-7 No. 27 must have been a sturdy and reliable airplane to serve you faithfully over 10 months of combat. What was the key to the robustness of these aircraft?

Kozhedub: The Lavochkins were simple, reliable aircraft. I met with their designer, Semyon Lavochkin, and visited plants where they were built. He always listened attentively to all remarks. The margin of safety was so great that, while pursuing the enemy, I exceeded the estimated loads without thinking twice. I was certain that the plane wouldn't let me down. I reached speeds of 700 kilometers per hour (434 mph) and even more on it. The La-7 was an upgraded version of the quite good La-5FN, which had the M-82FN engine. Lavochkin modified the design of the airfoil, changed the locations of the aircooling intakes, and upgraded the design of the central part of the wings.

AH: What were the circumstances of your success over the Me-262?

Kozhedub: On February 19, 1945, 1 was on a lone-wolf operation together with Dmitry Titorenko to the north of Frankfurt. I noticed a plane at an altitude of 350 meters (2,170 feet). It was flying along the Oder at a speed that was marginal for my plane. I made a quick about-face and started pursuing it at full throttle, coming down so as to approach it from under the "belly." My wingman opened fire, and the Me-262 (which was a jet, as I had already realized) began turning left, over to my side, losing speed in the process. That was the end of it. I would never have overtaken it if it had flown in a straight line. The main thing was to attack enemy planes during turns, ascents or descents, and not to lose precious seconds.

AH: What of your last combat, with Lieutenant Titorenko on April 19, 1945?

Kozhedub: On the evening of April 17, we went on a lone-wolf operation over the suburbs of Berlin. All of a sudden we saw a group of 40 Fw-190s with bomb loads, flying at an altitude of 3,500 meters in our direction. We climbed to the left and flew behind them under the cover of clouds. The odds were obviously not in our favor, but we still decided to attack since the enemy aircraft were heading for our troops. At maximum speed, we approached the tail of the formation, out of the sun. I opened fire almost point-blank at the wingman of the last pair of aircraft. The first Fw-190 fell into the suburbs of the city. Several planes turned to the west, while others continued their flight.
We decided to drive a wedge into the combat formation and break it up. Making a steep dive, we swept past enemy planes. As often happened in such cases, the Nazis thought that there were a lot of us. Confused, they started jettisoning bombs. Then they formed a defensive circle--each fighter covering the tail of the one in front of him--and began to attack us. Titorenko skillfully downed the plane that followed me. At that point, we saw our fighters and we turned for home. But suddenly, we saw yet another Fw-190 with a bomb. Apparently, the pilot had received a warning, for he made a quick dive and jettisoned his bomb over the suburbs of Berlin. But I still reached him on the recovery from his dive. The plane literally burst in the air. We made a good landing but our fuel tanks were completely empty. After that battle, I brought my personal score of downed Nazi planes to a total of 62.

AH: What were the highlights of your career in the VVS after August 18, 1945, when you were awarded your third Gold Star?

Kozhedub: After graduating from the Academy, I occupied several different high posts. But I always considered the training of young pilots my chief responsibility. It gave me a kind of satisfaction that could possibly only compare with one more gold star.

AH: Have you any comment on the present state of the art of Soviet aviation, military or civil?

Kozhedub: The Air Force is equipped with powerful and reliable aircraft, and a new generation of airliners is coming to civil aviation. That is beyond doubt. But still the main role is played by the person who is in charge of this perfect hardware--the pilot.

AH: In retrospect, which did you consider the better Soviet fighter design--the La-5 series or the Yak9 series?
Kozhedub: I always preferred the La-5s and always considered them the best ones. When I was a bit younger, I often went to Monino, about 25 miles northeast of Moscow, where my La-7 is on display at the National Air Museum. I would sit in its cabin, and life would seem more cheerful. For me, it is the time machine that takes me back to my youth, to the formidable '40s.

AH: What do you consider to have been the best fighter airplane--regardless of nationality--of World War II?

Kozhedub: The La-7. I hope you understand why.

AH: As a flier, if you had a choice of any airplane in the world, old or new, which one would you most like to fly?

Kozhedub: My choice is the Buran--the Soviet space shuttle. I don't know a better plane. This wonder plane was developed in the last decade, literally before my very eyes. Aviation is said to be the cradle of cosmonautics, and with good reason.

AH: Have you any final comments?

Kozhedub: Yes. I'm glad that perestroika in my country is paving the road to a time when all threatening combat hardware will be stored in the Monino museum.


This article was written by Colin D. Heaton originally published in World War II Magazine in January 1997.

[Hummingbird]

Interview with The Count: Luftwaffe Ace Walter Krupinski

Luftwaffe ace Walter Krupinski trained, led and served alongside some of the greatest fighter pilots in history. And with 197 victories, he was no slouch himself.

Interview by Colin D. Heaton

Lieutenant General Walter Krupinski was one of those men destined to tempt fate. Beginning his flight training on October 15, 1939, he flew fighters with distinction throughout World War II, serving in Germany's most prestigious units and training and flying with some of the world's greatest pilots, such as Adolf Galland, Otto Kittel, Dietrich Hrabak, Erich Rudorffer, Gerhard Barkhorn and Erich Hartmann. Krupinski's leadership style was similar to that of the great Werner Mölders, and both men were held in high esteem by all who knew them. Krupinski's fatherly approach and genuine concern for the welfare of his pilots, as well as his respect for captured enemy pilots, illustrated his humanity in a world where savagery was the order of the day.
By the time Krupinski was awarded the Ritterkrevz (Knight's Cross) on October 29, 1942, he had been credited with shooting down 53 Allied aircraft. His final score of 197 could have been much higher, but he never claimed a probable victory or argued about a kill, always giving the victory to the other man. His chivalrous attitude and Prussian birth earned him the nickname "Graf (Count) Punski," a name that still lingers in the reunion halls and among his friends. After the war, Krupinski worked closely with Organization Gehlen (the West German Secret Service), with the United States and Royal air forces in the emerging North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), and later as a coordinator and leader in the new Bundesluftwaffe (West Germany's Federal Air Force).
Walter and his wife live in modest retirement at their home in Neuenkirchen, Germany. Krupinski has often assisted the Cowles History Group in contacting many of Germany's aces for interviews, and he himself agreed to be interviewed by Colin D. Heaton in 1993.

Military History: Where and when were you born, General?

Krupinski: I was born on November 11, 1920, in a little town called Donnau in East Prussia, which is now under the jurisdiction of the Russian government, but I lived in Braunsberg, which is currently under the Polish government. I recently visited Braunsberg, where the family had lived from 1933 to 1945, and found that it has changed little since I was last there.

MH: What was your family background?

Krupinski: When I was born, my father was in military service. He had been in the First World War and at that time was fighting against the Communist groups trying to take control after the war. He served in the army during World War I and after -- until 1923 or 1924. He finally left the army and became a government employee. He soon joined the army again before the outbreak of World War II, but he was discharged after the 1939 Polish campaign ended, as a first lieutenant. He became a government employee again, but as the war progressed he was enlisted as a member of the Volksturm [civilians conscripted in defense of Germany in the closing days of the war] as the Soviets entered Germany proper, from January to May 1945. I had two younger brothers, Paul and Günther. Paul and I were born on the same date but two years apart. Paul joined the Kriegsmarine and entered the Unterseeboot [submarine] service, where he met his fate. He was killed when his boat, U-771, was sunk off the Norwegian coast, and only the bodies of Paul and a noncommissioned officer were found on the shore. They were buried at the military cemetery in Narvik, Norway. The youngest brother, Günther, was born in 1932, and he fled Prussia with my mother in January 1945 during the Soviet advance. He died in 1970 of cancer.


MH: What was your educational background?

Krupinski: Oh, the same as most of the others in the Luftwaffe and the military in general: primary school and then Gymnasium -- similar to your high school but a little more advanced -- studying the basic curriculum. I passed the Arbitur, which is the final exit examination, in 1938 and decided to join the military.

MH: When did you decide that you wanted to be a flier?

Krupinski: I never really had any interest in flying. In fact, I attempted to become a naval officer like my friends Johannes Steinhoff and Dietrich Hrabak, as I always liked the sea. However, when I finally was admitted, they transferred me to the Luftwaffe. I did not apply for it.

MH: What was your training like?

Krupinski: I started flight training in September 1939 at the Officers Cadet School at Berlin-Gatow, later transferring to Vienna-Schwechat, which was the Fighter Weapons School. It started with classroom instruction, aerodynamics -- the basics really. Then after a couple of months we were introduced to the [Heinkel] He-51 biplane trainer, in which we learned the basics of takeoffs and landings, or touch-and-goes, as well as proper aerial maneuvers with an instructor. When we were considered competent we soloed, and I just took to it quickly. It was after six months or so that we actually trained on the Messerschmitt 109, which as you know was the primary fighter throughout the war. Then we trained on instrument flying, enemy aircraft identification, emergency procedures, formation flying, gunnery skills such as deflection shooting, and learned about our particular aircraft, including minor maintenance.

MH: What was your first assignment?

Krupinski: I was transferred to the Channel coast and assigned to JG.52 [Jagdgeschwader (fighter wing) 52], where Günther Rall, Hans-Joachim Marseille, Johannes Steinhoff, Gerhard Barkhorn [who transferred to JG.2 "Richthofen"] and others were starting their careers as Experten [aces with 10 or more victories]. By the time I got involved, the Battle of Britain was just about over, which was in November 1940. I served with JG.52 during most of my career in the east, but later served with JG.5, JG.11, JG.26 and Jagdverband 44, flying the [Messerschmitt] Me-262 jet in the west from April 1, 1945, onward -- not much combat time in jets. The fighting against the American fighter escorts and bombers was the worst, since they were excellent fliers and had so much top-rated equipment.

MH: What was it like flying against the British pilots?

Krupinski: Well, I flew only 30 missions over the United Kingdom, and I was involved in a lot of dogfights with [Supermarine] Spitfires and [Hawker] Hurricanes but scored no victories. I was a slow starter, and I was suffering from bad shooting, and I was very anxious since I was afraid of being shot down over the English Channel and having to swim home!

MH: When did you transfer to the Russian Front?

Krupinski: I served at the Channel Front until the late spring of 1941, when JG.52 was transferred east. We flew from Ostende in Belgium to Suwalki in East Prussia, and had been staging there 10 days prior to Operation Barbarossa [the invasion of the Soviet Union on June 22, 1941]. The war started for us at Suwalki, where we took off to perform ground-attack missions against the Red Air Force airfields.


MH: Which group were you with at that time?

Krupinski: I was transferred to the replacement group of JG.52, then to 6th Staffel [squadron], attached to II Gruppe [II/JG.52] in southern Russia. Later, I became Staffelkapitän for 7th Staffel of III/JG.52 in Romania, guarding the Ploesti oil fields and refinery, bridges and that sort of thing from the American long-range bombers from North Africa and, later, Italy, until the spring of 1944.

MH: What was that first winter like for you and the unit?

Krupinski: The Russian winter! It's famous, you know, and all of the horror stories are true. We could not fly, and when we could it was hard to know how to get back unless you flew totally on instruments, and landings were more hazardous than combat. Many planes cracked up. I was there with Steinhoff [176 victories], Rall [275], Hrabak [125], Barkhorn [301] and many others who became well-known names. We all had the same experience, but not just during that winter. Every winter in Russia was miserable, but we were better prepared for them after 1941. We were quite a unit, scoring more than 10,000 victories during the war, and all of us were -- and still are -- good friends. We lose members every few years, so the circle of friends grows smaller.

MH: You also flew with Erich Hartmann, who would become the greatest ace of all time with 352 victories. You had a special association with him, didn't you?

Krupinski: I had just become commanding officer of 7th Staffel of III/JG.52 when in March 1943 I first met Erich Hartmann. He was a child! So young, and that was when I gave him the nickname of "Bubi," or boy, and it stuck with him for the rest of his life. He remembered me from about six months earlier when I had a memorable crash landing in a burning Me-109 at Maikop. I was shot all up after a sortie against the Soviets, and I was blinded by smoke and slightly wounded. Well, I came in to land and slammed into a pile of bombs that had been placed at the edge of this field, and I scraped right through all of it. [Raymond] Toliver and [Trevor] Constable wrote about it in Erich's biography, The Blond Knight of Germany.

MH: Didn't you help Hartmann score his first confirmed victory?

Krupinski: I assigned Hartmann to serve as my wingman many times, and along with Gerd Barkhorn, he was given his first opportunity for a victory when we met a single Soviet fighter. Erich had already been reprimanded earlier for breaking formation and chasing a fighter, getting shot up and crashing his plane with nothing to show for it. [Prior to Krupinski's assignment to command 7th Staffel, JG.52, Hartmann had, in fact, taken part in a team effort in downing an Ilyushin Il-2 Shturmovik on November 5, 1942, which was credited to him as his first victory as a means of encouraging the new man in the squadron. As he followed his already burning victim down, the Shturmovik exploded, damaging Hartmann's Me-109G and forcing him to make a belly landing. His first solo victory, scored while flying as Krupinski's wingman, was over a Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-1 on January 27, 1943.]

MH: How would you compare your fighting style with Hartmann's?

Krupinski: Erich was a great shot at long distances, unlike myself. I preferred to get in close and shoot, and many times I brought pieces of the enemy aircraft home with me. Erich later adopted the same tactic, and he was always successful and was never wounded or shot down by an enemy fighter pilot. He did get forced down once from debris after scoring a kill and was captured, but he managed to slip away, almost getting shot by a German sentry. He also got hit by flak a few times, but that was part of the day's work. He was a good student, and I taught him aerial gunnery after I had experience myself.

MH: How many times were you shot down during the war?

Krupinski: I bailed out four times, crashed a few times and was wounded five times in all. I don't recall the exact number of belly landings, since my flight log was taken by an American GI when I became a prisoner at the end of the war. I would guess the number of crashes to be between 10 and 12. I would like you or the readers as a favor to me, please let the world know about that logbook. If it ever turns up, I would like to give it to my grandsons one day. I would say the most spectacular crash I had was the one at Maikop, and another one where I crashed in the middle of a minefield during a battle. That is a good one to tell over a drink, you know, since it was the most fear I had during the war!

MH: Which of your combat victories stands out the most?

Krupinski: Oh, that is too much to remember, as I flew more than 1,100 missions, and once on July 5, 1943, I shot down 11 planes in four missions in a single day [bringing his total up to 90]. One of those was a dogfight with an expert Russian pilot, which lasted for about 15 minutes, which was rare for a Red Army pilot. They usually broke off after engaging and headed home after a couple of minutes if they could not bounce you or get an advantage. Another mission was when I came across 15 to 20 [Polikarpov I-16] Ratas, during which my aircraft was hit by a large air-to-ground rocket of some kind. The Ratas were attacking ground targets, and one Rata turned on me, shot the rocket at me and hit me. That was an unbelievable situation. I would also have to say that my victories in the narrow Caucasus passes were memorable, as was my victory over a [Lavochkin-Gudkov] LaG-5 at Stalingrad, where the Russian lost more than a third of his left wing and was burning like hell. About 10 Luftwaffe pilots saw that, including Johannes Steinhoff, who was my commanding officer at that time. That LaG was still flying at low level and I watched him go in. He crashed but did not explode -- just burned.

MH: Did you ever meet Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring?

Krupinski: I never met him face to face, but I saw him once. That was when I became a lieutenant at the ceremony on January 31, 1941, in Berlin along with several hundred other cadets.

MH: How many times did you meet Adolf Hitler?

Krupinski: Only once, when I was awarded the Eichenlaub [Oak Leaves] to the Ritterkreuz [Krupinski's score at that time was 177].

MH: Could you describe that ceremony?

Krupinski: There's not much to tell really, except that Bubi Hartmann and I had partied heavily the night before and were drunk as hell, despite the fact that we were to receive our awards from der Führer. Hartmann knew him from before, because as you know he was decorated three times by Hitler with the Oak Leaves, Swords and Diamonds. I was getting the Oak Leaves along with Hartmann on March 4, 1944. Hartmann was making some funny comments about him, mimicking him, and he tried to stand still without falling over. I was in not much better shape. We only started to sober up as Hitler, after handing us the awards, began describing his plan for "Panzerfest," which was a way to immunize the army divisions against enemy tank attacks. He asked us about Lemberg, where we had come from and where our brave soldiers were fighting against those Russian tanks and were dying terribly. He told us about the war in Russia, and you had the feeling that you were listening to a complete madman. I thought he was a raving lunatic, and by the time the meeting was over, Hartmann and I needed another drink, and Hartmann kept saying, "I told you so."

MH: When did you transfer to the Western Front?

Krupinsk: That was the spring of 1944, when many Russian Front experts were sent to fight against the American four-engine bombers. I did that for a while with JG.11, then I commanded III/JG.26 between early October 1944 and March 25, 1945. Fighting against the American bombers and fighter escorts was much worse than fighting in Russia. The [Boeing] B-17s were difficult to engage due to their potent .50-caliber defensive fire, and the American fighters made it even harder to get close, since they outnumbered us somewhere around 10-to-1 on the average. I found this all very frustrating and had to change the way I thought about things. We were losing experienced experts all the time -- we were just overwhelmed. Allied fighters and bombers attacked our air bases day and night, as well as bombing the cities. Exhaustion was also a factor, since we could never get enough replacement pilots, and the newer pilots just did not have the experience to survive long under such conditions.

MH: How did you get involved with Galland's Jagdverband 44?

Krupinsk: Well, I was trying to finish the war out at our fighter recreation center at Bad Wiesee in Tegernsee when Steinhoff and Galland stepped up to some of us on April 1, 1945. Steinhoff asked me, "Graf...how would you like to fly the 262?" The very next morning, I jumped into the cockpit of a Messerschmitt 262 and flew my first mission in it after a short familiarization period. I described all of that in a long paper I wrote for our Jägerblatt, or "The Fighter News," of February–March 1987. My last sentence was this: "Es war der Beginn eines neuen Zeitalters der Luftfahrtgeschichte," or, "It was the beginning of a new epoch in aviation."

MH: What was your impression of the personnel of JV.44?

Krupinski: Galland was using Steinhoff as his recruiting officer, and they had collected some of the best in the business. They got Barkhorn and tried to get Hartmann, but Erich still had a soft spot for JG.52. His decision to remain with this unit would prove costly. As you know, he spent over 10 years in Soviet prison camps after the war, after the Americans handed them over to the Red Army.

MH: What were the last months of the war like for you?

Krupinsk: Well, I joined JV.44, Galland's "Squadron of Experts" at Munich-Reim, then we moved to Salzburg in Austria, then Aibling-Heilbronn. We had some spectacular missions, especially when we received the R4M air-to-air rockets for our jets. The first time I saw them work was on April 5, when Galland, who was leading our flight, fired his salvo at a group of American [Martin] B-26 bombers. In moments, one disintegrated and another was falling -- the tail had been blown away, and both parts were fluttering down through the light clouds. We flew off a few hundred yards so as not to hit any debris or get jumped by enemy fighters, then attacked again using our four 30mm cannons. I damaged a couple of bombers but scored no kills that day, though I am pretty sure everyone else did. We had many such missions, but we also ran into American fighters. [North American P-51D] Mustangs were a constant problem, and they would always follow us home, hoping for an easy kill. We had to be very careful when coming in for a landing, as they would be following a few miles and only a couple of minutes behind us. Taking off and landing were the most tense moments for a 262 pilot, as the plane built up speed slowly, and you could stall out easily if you pushed the throttles forward too quickly. This happened several times.

MH: Can you tell us what you saw on the day Steinhoff crashed?

Krupinsk: His flight was commanded by Galland. Gerd Barkhorn, then with 300 victories; "the Rammer" Eduard Schallmoser [so named for his penchant for ramming his jet into enemy bombers once his ammunition ran out]; Ernst Fährmann; Klaus Neumann, who scored five kills in the jet and 37 kills in the war; and myself were all either taking off for a bomber-intercept mission or preparing to go on the morning of April 18, 1945. Steinhoff was loaded up with fuel and rockets, and his left wheel dug into a crater that had not been properly repaired after the latest American raid on our base, and his jet bounced against the ground. When it landed, he was trapped inside the burning wreckage, with the burning fuel exploding the rockets and 30mm ammunition around him. I did not see it, but everyone heard it. There was Macky Steinhoff, trapped in this, but we got him to the hospital and he survived somehow. He was the best friend any of us had, and a true patriot and leader. All of us felt that we were only a thread away from a similar fate after that accident, as well as the loss of Günther Lützow [who went missing on April 24], and others too numerous to list.

MH: How did the war end for you?

Krupinsk: I was captured when the unit surrendered after blowing up our jets, when the Americans were practically rolling onto the airfield. An American Intelligence officer found us and took us via Heidelberg to the U.S. Army Air Forces/Royal Air Force interrogation camp in England. After four weeks of answering questions, I was being transported to Cherbourg, I believe, when I was attacked by a French soldier with a rifle. He struck me in the head, knocking me unconscious. I found myself in the hospital in Munich. After all of the interrogations, I ended up with the Americans, but while I was in custody I was robbed of my Ritterkreuz und Eichenlaub and my flight logbook, as mentioned earlier. It was a difficult time, but my contact with the American military and the U.S. Army Air Forces officers prepared me for a new career later in the 1950s, until I retired in the 1970s.

MH: What kind of work did you do after the war? I understand that unemployment rate was high for former officers of the military in Germany.

Krupinsk: Yes, this was true. Finding work after a career as a professional officer was not easy, especially since anyone who owned a business did so with the local Allied military commander's authorization. Professional officers were considered the elite of the National Socialist Party, and any connection to us could have been economically unwise. It was not until much later that this attitude changed, and people began to realize that if anything it was the professional officer corps who remained nonpolitical for the most part. We had no agenda except to defend our country from attack, right or wrong. There is no difference between us and any officer corps in any nation. All would defend their homeland and families, regardless of the political leadership in control of their country.

MH: Tell us about the work you did after the war in the Intelligence services.

Krupinski: I started working for U.S. Intelligence services under the umbrella of Organization Gehlen, the military and foreign intelligence service branch of the Abwehr formed by Captain Reinhard Gehlen during the war. I then worked for Amt Blank, which was the beginning of our Defense Ministry under Theodor Blank, West Germany's first postwar minister of defense during the Konrad Adenauer administration. I cannot discuss my work with these groups, as it is all still highly classified and I took an oath of silence.

MH: Could you tell us who Gehlen was?

Krupinsk: General Reinhard Gehlen was one of the Abwehr's chief intelligence officers, who later replaced Admiral Wilhelm Canaris as head of the organization [after Canaris was dismissed for his suspected role in the July 20 assassination attempt against Hitler and was subsequently put to death at the Flossenburg concentration camp in 1945]. Gehlen's work and the examples he set were responsible for the creation of many postwar intelligence networks, including the GSG-9 [German counterterrorist/intelligence service]. Gehlen died in 1979. His work in collecting intelligence on the Red Army and his ability to collate intelligence on every aspect of Soviet military operations proved invaluable to the NATO allies during the Cold War. Their understanding of the Soviet mind-set, order of battle, political aims, etc. -- all of that probably prevented another European if not world conflict. Gehlen believed that knowledge was power, and in this case he was proven correct.

MH: How did you get back into the military, especially the air force, after the war?

Krupinski: I was approached by some officers who mentioned that we were forming the Bundesluftwaffe -- which I already knew from my work with Intelligence, but they did not know that. I was easily recruited, as there were many of the former Luftwaffe experts already there. I went for refresher flight training in the United Kingdom as CO [commanding officer] of Jagdbombergeschwader [fighter bomber wing] 33. I was trained on the latest fighter types of the day, including the Lockheed F-104 Starfighter. I was then commanding officer of German training in the United States, and later I was appointed director of flying safety for the armed forces. After that, I was commanding general of the German 3rd Air Division, chief of staff for the Second Allied Tactical Air Force, and then commanding officer of the German Air Force Tactical Command. Those were a lot of different hats, as you would say. I worked closely with many of the important political personalities of the time, such as Robert McNamara, who was secretary of defense under President [John F.] Kennedy.

MH: How's your family today?

Krupinsk: We have only one daughter, who is 52 and married to an air force officer, a lieutenant colonel but not a pilot. I have two grandsons who are students at the University of Munich, aged 27 and 25.

MH: General Krupinski, with your long life experience, what advice do you have for the youth of today?

Krupinsk: Easy, only one sentence: Don't trust dictators or madmen!

This article was written by Colin D. Heaton and originally published in the June 1998 issue of Military History.

[Hummingbird]

Ivan Kozhedub]: “Out of the 44,000 aircraft lost by Germany on the Soviet-German front, 90 percent were downed by fighters.”

Das wage ich mal zu bezweifeln.
Das würde ja bedeuten dass die russischen Jäger 39.600 deutsche Flugzeuge abgeschossen hätten.

Mir liegen zwar keine genauen Zahlen vor, aber nach allem was ich bis jetzt so gehört habe sind sehr viele Flugzeuge durch Beschuss vom Boden und auch Unfälle verloren gegangen.
Das auf diese zwei Faktoren nur 10% bzw. 4.400 Verluste entfallen sollen, halte ich für Unsinn.

[Hummingbird]

Da bin ich doch noch über ein viel versprechend wirkendes Buch gestolpert, das ich noch nicht kannte.

Bild: http://www.graf-grislawski.elknet.pl/Photos/gog.gif (Bild automatisch entfernt)

http://www.graf-grislawski.elknet.pl/



Aus den Reviews:

Da Alfred Grislawski noch selbst an diesem Buch mitwirken konnte, erhält der Leser eine Fülle an persönlichen Erinnerungen und Details, die auch demjenigen, der keinen der beiden engen Freunde gekannt hat, einen nachvollziehbaren Eindruck ihrer Persönlichkeiten vermitteln

Aber auch offene Fragen aus der Kriegszeit werden behandelt: Wer war tatsächlich an der 'Verschwörung der Jagdflieger' beteiligt? - Graf oder Steinhoff?

Also da ich „In letzter Stunde - Verschwörung der Jagdflieger“ von Johannes Steinhoff gelesen habe, würde es mich jetzt schon brennend interessieren in wie weit er da nicht beteiligt gewesen sein soll.

[Halle 44]

Wow, danke für die Interviews, Hummingbird. Sehr interessante Lektüre! Ich war 2 Stunden lang echt gefesselt...

[Dirk Diggler]

yep, sehr schön. danke!

[Ta152]

< snip >

Aber auch offene Fragen aus der Kriegszeit werden behandelt: Wer war tatsächlich an der 'Verschwörung der Jagdflieger' beteiligt? - Graf oder Steinhoff?

Also da ich „In letzter Stunde - Verschwörung der Jagdflieger“ von Johannes Steinhoff gelesen habe, würde es mich jetzt schon brennend interessieren in wie weit er da nicht beteiligt gewesen sein soll.

Ein Fußnote aus \"Falkenjahre\" von Wolfgang Falck ist da vielsagend nichtsssagend:

Die Begebenheiten um diese Meuterei sind ausführlich beschrieben in Steinhoff, Johann: In letzter Stunde. Verschwörung der Jagdflieger, München/Leipzig: List 1974. Dem Leser ist allerdings zu raten, Steinhoffs Darstellung seiner eigenen Bedeutung bie diesen Vorgängen nicht allzu gutgläubig zu folgen. In dieser Hinsicht ist das buch nichts weiter als ein mehr oder weniger gekonntes Stück Selbststilisierung in einem Drama, für das der Begriff \"Verschwörung\" sicher zu hoch gegriffen ist.

----

Schöne Texte die Du da gepostest hast  :thumbs

[Hummingbird]

Oh, an diese Bemerkung von Falk konnte ich mich gar nicht mehr erinnern.

In seinem Buch über die „Verschwörung“ beschreibt Steinhoff halt das Geschehen aus seiner Perspektive. Ich hatte damals beim lesen eigentlich nicht den Eindruck er würde sich da wichtig machen. Vielleicht habe ich es auch einfach nicht gemerkt, weil ich nicht darauf geachtet habe. Ich werde das Buch noch mal hervorkramen.

Steinhoff stand halt Lützow sehr nahe und dadurch hat er wohl die ganze Affäre sehr „hautnah“ miterlebt.
Vielleicht kommt es mir nur so vor, oder vielleicht hat es auch ganz andere Gründe, aber mir scheint es als wäre Steinhoff heute im Kreise der ehemaligen Jagdwaffe ein Außenseiter. Es wäre natürlich ein plausibler Grund, das sich mancher von ihm still distanzierte, als dieser wieder in bedeutender Position in der Bundesluftwaffe ein Buch veröffentlichte, mit dem der eine oder andere nicht einverstanden ist.


Hast du eigentlich auch das Buch von Julius Meimberg gelesen?
Wenn ja, kannst du kurz was dazu sagen?
wie ist seine Beschreibung des afrikanischen Kriegsschauplatzes?

[Hummingbird]

Schön das die Interviews hier auf Interesse gestoßen sind.

Hier gibt es noch weitere Interviews, die ebenfalls interessante Informationen enthalten.

@ Halle 44:
Von deinem neuen Avatar wird man ja Nervenkrank!  

[Ta152]

< snip >

Hast du eigentlich auch das Buch von Julius Meimberg gelesen?
Wenn ja, kannst du kurz was dazu sagen?
wie ist seine Beschreibung des afrikanischen Kriegsschauplatzes?

Noch nicht, muß ich mir noch kaufen.

[Hummingbird]

Ja, ich glaube das ist bei mir auch bald fällig.  :thumbs

Liste mit Autobiografien & Biografien