Vad, Precht, Varwick, Friedenstauben, Appeasementschafe oder gar Putinversteher? Einstellungen

[Glorfindel]

Es ist beides: Das Nichterkennen(wollen) des Charakters der russ. Politik inkl. Verharmlosung/Relativierung (verbunden durch Antiamerikanismus) und das Wissen darum, Unwahrheiten zu Verbreiten.

[Glorfindel]

Praktisch alle hier genannten, verbreiten russische Narraive/Propaganda, selbst wenn sie teilweise betonen, dass der russische Angriffskrieg völkerechtswidrig sei (was ja offensichtlich ist). Sie sind damit entweder bewusste Handlanger der Russen oder nützliche Idioten, nicht weil sie diese Meinung haben, sondern weil sie russ. Propaganda weiterverbreiten. Die klassischen Aussagen der russischen Propaganda wären u.a.:

- die militärische Unterstützung der Ukraine sei sinnlos bzw. zwecklos (russ. Propaganda)
- Schuld am Krieg sei die NATO-Osterweiterung (russ. Propaganda)
- die USA hat 2014 in der Ukraine einen Putsch durchgeführt (russ. Propaganda)
- Deutschland würde besser für seine Wirtschaft das Geld ausgeben als für die Ukraine (russ. Propaganda)
- die Ukraine ist eines der korruptesten Länder überhaupt (russ. Propaganda)

Es gibt auch noch ein paar andere Propaganda-Aussagen, aber dies sind die gängisten.

Ich komme zum Schluss, dass all diese Leute russ. Propaganda transportieren, damit den russ. Zielen dienen.

[Glorfindel]

Auch interessant:

Professor Timothy Snyder hat sich House Committee on Oversight and Accountability zum "Putin-Flügel" in der republikanischen Partei bzw. dem Einfluss chinesischer Propaganda auf die US-Politik geäussert. Er sagt, dass wenn man der chinesischen Propganda folgt, man ein gewisses Muster erkennen könne, was heisse, dass die "Themen der politischen Kriegsführung" auf die Amerikaner direkt abzielen würden und diese auch erreichen würde.
1. Ukrainer sind Nazis. Eine russische Behauptung, aufgenommen durch China, gehört im Abgeordentenhaus.
2. Ursache ist die NATO-Osterweiterung. Eine russische Behauptung, aufgenommen durch China.
3. Die Ukraine ist korrupt. Eine russische Behauptung, aufgenommen durch China, gehört im Abgeordentenhaus.
4. Hilfe für die Ukraine sei sinnlos. Eine russische Behauptung, aufgenommen durch China, aufgenommen in Debatten im Abgeordentenhaus.
5. Wir sollten uns um unsere Grenze kümmern und nicht um die Ukraine. Eine russische Behauptung, übernommen durch China, wiederholt in Debatten in beiden Kammern.
6. Die "Biden-Bribe". Eine russische Behauptung, übernommen durch China, aufgenommen in Debatten im Abgeordnetenhaus.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deZGDItziG4

Snyder sagt, dass ein bedeutender Teil der republikanischen Politiker hat sich angewöhnt, Aussagen zu wiederholen, die reine Propganda seien. Es sind ähnliche Behauptungen die auch hier immer wieder gehört werden. Bei Ziff. 5 ist es etwas anders: Dort heisst es in Deutschland: "Wir sollten uns um unsere Wirtschaft kümmern und nicht um die Ukraine." Die Ziff. 6 gibt es so nicht, aber es gibt andere Behauptungen, z.B. Merkel hätte zugegeben, dass Minsk II nur eine Inhaltetaktik war, um die Ukraine gegen Russland zu bewaffnen.

Snyder hat noch einen erklärenden Text zu seinen Aussagen publiziert:

Democracy is in decline, dragged down by the autocratic lie. The autocrats offer no new visions; instead they lie about democracies and insert lies into democracies. The test of disinformation is its power to alter the course of crucial events, such as wars and elections.

Russia undertook a full-scale invasion of Ukraine on the basis of a big lie about Nazis.

Even as we meet today, Russian (and Chinese) propaganda shapes House debates about Ukraine, the most important foreign policy decision of our time. In domestic politics, the most important matter in coming months the coming presidential election.

(...)

Though Americans sometimes forget this, Ukrainian resistance is seen around the world as an obvious American cause and an easy American victory. So long as Ukraine fights, it is fulfilling the entire NATO mission by itself, defending a European order based in integration rather than empire, and affirming international order in general. It is also holding back nuclear proliferation.

Given these obvious strategic gains, American failure in Ukraine will lead other powers to conclude that a feckless and divided United States will also fail to meet future challenges. The fundamental goal of Russian (and thus Chinese) propaganda is to prevent American action, thereby making America seem impotent and democracy pointless -- also in the eyes of Americans themselves.

Russia's invasion of Ukraine is intimately connected to a possible Chinese war of aggression against Taiwan. As Taiwanese leaders continually and urgently remind us, Ukrainian resistance deters Chinese aggression. Ukraine deters China in a way that the United States cannot, without taking any action that Beijing could interpret as provocative. A Russian victory in Ukraine, therefore, would clear the way for Chinese aggression in the Pacific. (...)

Russia's one path to victory in Ukraine leads through minds and mouths in Washington, DC. Russian and Chinese propaganda therefore celebrates the inability of Congress to pass aid for Ukraine, and praises those who hinder the passage of such a bill. But the specific propaganda memes that China spreads (and some American leaders repeat) about the war are of Russian origin. Russia is the leader in this field; China is imitating Russian techniques and Russian tropes.

A central example is the Russo-Chinese invocation of "Nazism." (...) This "Nazi" meme was immediately boosted by the Chinese government. Over the weekend before this hearing, a Member of Congress tweeted this Russian disinformation trope.

The Russian war of destruction in Ukraine is the pre-eminent test of democracy; U.S. elections come next. Russia is also the leader here. China has has no Paul Manafort. It lacks American human assets with experience in directing foreign influence campaigns and close to American presidential campaigns. Nothing China has done (as yet) rivals the Russian hacking of the Democratic National Committee in 2016.

On social media, CCP propaganda demeans the Biden administration. But China's social media campaign on behalf of Trump in 2024 looks like a copy (a poor one) of Russia's on behalf of Trump in 2016. CCP propaganda invokes the false charges raised in impeachment hearings, but the lies that China magnifies arose from a person in contact with Russian intelligence. What China can do is try an influence campaign based on a Russian initiative -- and American impeachment hearings. (...)

The CCP's internet propaganda is posted on X (Twitter). Likewise, Russia's denazification meme did not need a Russian or a Chinese channel to reach Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene. Nor did she need a Russian or Chinese platform to spread the disinformation trope further. She and her American followers used X (Twitter).

(...) In the case of Matt Gaetz, we know that the transmission belt was Chinese, because he cited a Chinese state propaganda source in congressional debate.

(...) Under Musk, X (Twitter) has been particularly lax in policing known Chinese propaganda accounts, ignoring their flagging by government and other platforms. Musk has also personally spread specific Russian propaganda tropes.

(...) Russian memes work not by presenting Russia as a positive alternative, but by demoralizing others. (...)

The same holds with the Russian meme to the effect that Ukraine is corrupt. A completely bogus Russian source introduced the entirely fake idea that the Ukrainian president had bought yachts. Although this was entirely untrue, Representative Greene then spread the fiction. Senator J.D. (...)

The larger sense of that lie is that everyone everywhere is corrupt (...) Ukraine's president, Volodymr Zelens'kyi, chose to risk his life by remaining in Kyiv and defending his country against a fearsome attack from Russia (...) His daring gamble saved not only his own democracy, but opened a window of faith that democracies can defend themselves. It confirmed the basis lesson of liberty that individual choices have consequences. The lie directed at Zelens'kyi was meant not only to discredit him personally and undermine support for Ukraine, but also to persuade Americans that no one is righteous and nothing is worth defending.

Insofar as legislators such as Marjorie Taylor Greene and J.D. Vance are vectors of propaganda, they are themselves playing a part of the Russian (or Russo-Chinese) operation. (...)

When legislators embrace Russian lies, they demobilize the rest of us, conveying the underlying notion that all that matters is a clever fiction and a platform from which to spread it. (...)

Elite American actors such as Congressional representatives and billionaires know what they are doing when they spread Russian memes. Most Americans, however, confront them unknowingly.

From the perspective of Russia (and China), all social media platforms present an attack surface. Non-Chinese platforms are the main vectors of Russian and disinformation. (...)

In the contest between authoritarian and democratic regimes, it will ultimately be not just self-defense but creative initiative that defines and saves the democracies. The era of hostile disinformation is also the era of the decline of reporting, and the two phenomena are linked. An American who has access to reporting will be less vulnerable to disinformation, and better able to make navigate the demands of democratic citizenship. A victory over disinformation will be won in a climate in which Americans have access to reliable information and reasons to trust it.