XM8, der Sammelthread Einstellungen

[BigBad]

WEAPONS OF THE WORLD: SCAR Beats the XM-8


November 17, 2004: Last year, the U.S. Special Operations Command (SOCOM) issued a specification for the SOF (Special Operations Forces) Combat Assault Rifle (SCAR). At the time, the U.S. Army was also developing a new assault rifle, the XM-8, and it was thought that SOCOM might use a version of the XM-8 for its own needs. SCAR, however, is somewhat different from the XM-8. For one thing, SCAR must be able to quickly change barrels and receivers so that it can fire 5.56mm, 7.62mm (large cartridge, like the M-14 and American medium machine-guns) or the short, AK-47 7.62mm rounds. Moreover, SCAR has to be even more rugged and reliable (and expensive to build) than the XM-8. As a result, the XM-8 lost out to a custom weapon from the Belgium firm, FN Herstal.

SCAR is actually two different rifles, the “light” version (5.56mm) and the “heavy” (7.62mm). Maximum number of weapons to be ordered will be 155,000 (84,000 standard lights, 28,000 closer-quarter combat versions of the light rifle, 12,000 light sniper types, 15,000 standard heavies, 7,000 heavy close-quarters combat conversions of the heavy rifle and 12,000 heavy sniper rifles.)

Meanwhile, the U.S. Army has given all other rifle manufacturers one more chance to submit weapons to compete with the current Heckler & Koch XM-8. This is a sign that official acceptance and mass production is not far away. However, not all of the senior army, or Department of Defense, brass are willing to spend the billions of dollars it will cost to reequip the troops with the XM-8. There should be a decision by next year, however. Meanwhile, SOCOM will have SCAR, even if the army ends up not getting the XM-8.

Quelle: http://www.strategypage.com/....EAP.HTM

Zusammenfassung
U.S. Special Operations Command (SOCOM) hat sich für das SCAR anstelle des XM-8 entschieden, da es sich als noch robuster und verlässlicher als das XM-8 erwiesen hat (und teurer).
Weiter heist es das die US Army den Gewehrherstellern eine letzte Chance gegeben ein Gewehr einzureichen das mit dem XM-8 konkurieren kann. Dies wird als Zeichen dafür gewertet das es bis zur offiziellen Bestätigung und Massenproduktion des XM-8 nicht mehr lange dauern wird. Dennoch gibt es Führungsoffiziere die Kosten der XM-8 Einführung beim Heer scheuen. Eine Entscheidung wird nächstes Jahr fallen.

[Panzermann]

schau mal in diesen Thread: SOCOM SCAR program - Welche Waffe von FN?, SOF Combat Assault Rifle  ;)

[Panzermann]

So mal wieder was neues vom (X)M8:
General Dynamics Partners with Heckler & Koch to Create U.S. Source for XM8 Modular Weapon System

General Dynamics Partners with Heckler & Koch to Create U.S. Source for XM8 Modular Weapon System
Companies create joint venture for licensing and production of high-speed battle weapon.
(Click hereto see Heckler & Koch's XM8 Overview.) FALLS CHURCH, Va. – General Dynamics European Land Combat Systems, a business unit of General Dynamics (NYSE: GD), and Heckler & Koch GmbH of Oberndorf, Germany, have created a U.S.-based joint venture company to manufacture and deliver the 5.56mm XM8 Light Weight Modular Carbine System to U.S. government customers.

Art Veitch, General Dynamics executive vice president for Combat Systems, said, “This partnership expands General Dynamics’ ability to meet the varied requirements of the U.S. infantry soldier, our traditional customer, while providing the government with a domestic supply of a crucial transformational weapon system.  We look forward to working with Heckler & Koch to achieve the full U.S. market potential for this excellent weapon.”

The XM8 Light Weight Modular Weapon System has been proposed as a replacement for the current M16 rifle and M4 carbine, the standard infantry weapons in today's U.S. military.  The XM8’s action is based on the Heckler & Koch G36, a proven infantry weapon.  Different barrels and other modules can be swapped quickly to meet changing mission requirements.  Variants include the baseline carbine, a sub-machine gun-like personal defense weapon, a sharpshooter’s configuration and a variant for use as a heavy-duty machine gun for sustained rapid-fire applications.  An optional add-on 40mm grenade launcher is also available.

Heckler & Koch, a leader in the design and manufacturing of technologically advanced firearms for defense and law enforcement, is the firm behind some of the most well known firearms of the last fifty years including the G3 rifle, MP5 submachine gun, USP pistol, and newer models such as the MP7 Personal Defense Weapon, the UMP submachine gun, and the G36 weapon system.  The company has U.S. operations based in Sterling, Va.

General Dynamics European Land Combat Systems is a business unit within the General Dynamics Combat Systems group.  The unit is composed of the three European land combat systems companies owned by General Dynamics:  MOWAG AG, of Kreuzlingen, Switzerland; General Dynamics Santa Barbara Sistemas, of Madrid, Spain; and Steyr Spezialfahrzeug, based in Vienna, Austria.

General Dynamics, headquartered in Falls Church, Virginia, employs approximately 71,600 people worldwide and anticipates 2004 revenue in excess of $19 billion.  The company is a market leader in mission-critical information systems and technologies; land and expeditionary combat systems, armaments and munitions; shipbuilding and marine systems; and business aviation.

Jetzt ist einer der ganz großen im Spiel: Genral Dynamics.

Was dann dazu führen wird, daß das Budget unter Garantie gesprengt wird. Und die Waffe bestimmt nicht halten wird, was die Werbeabteilung verspricht.

[Striker]

Gestern wollte mir einer weißmachen, das es kein XM8 gibt, das Bush das abgelehnt hat, und Colt beauftrag hat um eine neue Waffe zu bauen.

Urban Legend oder ist da was drann?
Ich glaubs ja nicht, da HK ja auch ne Ami Firma ist.

[Nite]

Ich glaubs ja nicht, da HK ja auch ne Ami Firma ist.

H&K ist wieder deutsch nachdem es zwischendurch mal britisch war.
Das ist ja auch der Grund für die Zusammenarbeit mit ATK und neuerdings General Dynamics.

[Desert Puma]

H&K war immer deutsch, nur war es vorübergehende der besitzer nicht.

sonst wären ja rolls royce und bentley auch deutsch.

[Chiron]

Kommt drauf an was man mit H&K meint:
Heckler & Koch GmbH, Oberndorf a. N., Ba-Wü ist eine deutsche Firma die zeitweise in britischem Besitz war.
Heckler & Koch Inc., Sterling, Virginia (die das XM-8 produzieren wird) ist eine amerikanische Firma die in deutschem Besitz ist.

[Striker]

Ich meine HK inc. Also die Ami Firma.
Aber was ist jetzt mit dem neuen STGW?

[Rogue1]

Fassen wir nochmal zusammen:

(Spät)Sommer 2004: Truppenerprobung des XM8 (2. Gen.); positives Feedback.

10.11.04: DefRev veröffentlicht einen Artikel, in welchem es heißt, dass das XM8 gerüchteweise einen Test bei der Army nicht bestanden hat und deshalb eine Beschaffung evtl. nicht stattfinden wird. Als Indiz wird ua. angegeben, dass die Army ein "Sources Sought"-Dokument veröffentlicht hat, dass Waffenhersteller auffordert, eventuelle Alternativen zum XM8 zu präsentieren.

12.11.04: Die Army Times schreibt lediglich, dass das "Sources Sought"-Dokument veröffentlicht wurde, stellt dies aber nicht als Hinderungsgrund für das XM8 dar.

17.11.04: Laut Strategy Page hat das XM8 den SCAR-Wettbwerb des SOCOM gegen den Entwurf von FN verloren.
Gleichzeitig wird das "Sources Sought"-Dokument als mögliches Anzeichen einer bevorstehenden Produktion des XM8 für die Army gewertet, wobei nochmal betont wird, dass es immernoch eine größere Zahl von Leuten gibt, die lieber M4 / M16 noch einmal modernisieren würden.

03.01.05: H&K holt sich General Dynamics als Partner zur Vermarktung des XM8 an Bord.


Weiter ist -soweit ich weiß- nix bekannt.

[Desert Puma]

wenn was wichtiges passieren würde, wären alle w-w-foren voll mit posts über das xm-8.

[Praetorian]

US Army decides to compete OICW

By JOSHUA KUCERA
JDW Staff Reporter
and SCOTT GOURLEY
JDW Correspondent
Washington, DC, and California

The US Army has issued a request for proposals for the Objective Individual Combat Weapon (OICW) increment 1, which will consist of a family of weapons to replace the M4 carbine, M16 rifle, M249 light machine gun and some M9 pistols in use in the army today.

The programme is mired in controversy, with rivals to HK Defense arguing that the competition is not free and open. Originally the gun was going to be developed together with the XM25 25 mm grenade launcher.

HK Defense has been developing the 5.56 mm XM8 carbine as an additional capability for the army. In budget documents released at the beginning of this year, the army set aside US$32.5 million to buy 10,400 XM8 carbines in Fiscal Year 2006. That procurement is now on hold pending the competition.

Rival companies which did not compete for the original grenade launcher contract have protested, arguing that since the focus of the programme has changed to the gun, it should again face competition.

The army denies that it is favouring HK Defense. The service says it decided to put the programme up for competition because of a recent decision to include a light machine gun (LMG) in addition to the original carbine, special compact and designated marksman variants, service officials said.

JDW

[Hummingbird]

Habe ich das richtig verstanden, dass das XM-8 LMG die SAW ersetzen soll?

Das wage ich doch zu bezweifeln.

[Keiler]

schnipp

zum Artikel:
Mich erstaunt immer wieder, wie hoch die Amis die 7,62 halten. Fackler's Untersuchungen haben doch gezeigt, dass die US-7,62NATO miserable Wundwirkung hat.

schnapp

Das liegt daran, dass Fackler ein Doktrinist ist, und keine ausser seiner eigenen Lehrmeinung akzeptiert.
Er behauptet zB dass die temporäre Wundkavität keinen oder nur sehr geringen Einfluss auf die Stoppwirkung von Geschossen hat.
Jeder, der mal einen richtigen Schlag in die Magengrube bekommen hat, hat eine Ahnung davon was Nervenüberreizung ist.
Und wenn ich mir dann angucke, was die 7,62er für eine temporäre Kavität (auch wenn sie nur kurz ist) verursacht, bin ich geneigt anzunehmen, das Fackler diese zeitweiligen Effekte in seinen Betrachtungen zugunsten seiner Theorie vernachlässigt.

Wenn jemand mit ner 5.56er 4 Schuss braucht um nen Terri niederzustrecken, heissts die Mun taugt nix. Wenn jemand 4 Schuss 7,62 braucht, heissts er war froh keine 5.56er dabeigehabt zu haben...

Hach!  :D  Ich liebe dieses Thema!


[edit] spelling

[Hummingbird]

Wenn jemand mit ner 5.56er 4 Schuss braucht um nen Terri niederzustrecken, heissts die Mun taugt nix.

Was meinst du denn mit Terri?
Vielleicht einen Terrier?
Ja, die können wirklich schwer zu erledigen sein, die Biester.

[Keiler]

Ich merke dass ich zuviele Ami Seiten lese.
"Gegner".

[Whuffo]

Updates:

July 2005  
Back to the Drawing Board: Army Rewrites Small Arms Plans

By Harold Kennedy

Army leaders have concluded that the service’s current inventory of small arms is ill suited to the guerilla wars that U.S. ground forces now are fighting.

The M16 5.56 mm assault rifle—the standard combat weapon for all services since the Vietnam War—is considered too long, with its 20-inch barrel, for close-in urban fighting. Many Army, Marine and special operations forces have adopted a shorter version of the M16, the M4 carbine, which has a barrel only 14.5 inches long.

Another factor is that infantry weapons are too difficult to maintain and repair, said Lt. Col. Mathew Clarke, product manager for individual weapons at Picatinny Arsenal, N.J.

“Today, if a barrel wears out, the weapon leaves the unit,” he explained. “You’re short until it is repaired. It could be days; it could be weeks, depending upon where it’s got to go and whether parts are available.”

The Army has been working to develop a so-called “objective individual combat weapon” to replace both the M16 and M4. The OICW is envisioned as two weapons in one, a rifle that fires a 5.56 mm round and a grenade launcher that expends a 20 mm air-bursting munition. A decade ago, the Army awarded a $105 million contract to a team headed by ATK Integrated Defense, of Plymouth, Minn. The venture included Heckler & Koch Defense Inc., of Sterling, Va., as the weapon’s designer and manufacturer.

The Army eventually concluded that the XM29—with inseparable rifle and grenade-launcher components—was too bulky and of limited utility, since not every soldier needs a grenade launcher. Thus, it was decided to develop the two elements separately.

In 2002, the Army awarded a $5 million contract modification to the ATK-HK team, calling for rapid development of the rifle component, which became known as the XM8 lightweight modular weapon system. Until recently, the Army planned to begin fielding it later this year.

The XM8 has been designed in four variants, Clarke said. These include a carbine, compact carbine, sharpshooter version and automatic rifle.

XM8 parts—such as the barrel, butt stock, magazine, sighting system and carrying handle—can be interchanged, he noted. Barrel lengths range from nine inches for a compact carbine to 20 inches for a sharpshooter rifle.

HK Defense produced 300 XM8s for testing, and the Army put them through their paces in a series of trials. The weapons have earned high marks, Clarke said.

“The final environmental test took place this winter in -53 degree weather at the Army’s Cold Regions Test Center at Fort Greeley, Alaska,” he said. “Fifteen to 20 soldiers fired 1,000 rounds each over two weeks. The weapons performed well under those conditions.”

In the meantime, however, the Army Infantry Center at Fort Benning, Ga., changed its requirements, Clarke said.

Instead of an automatic rifle, the Infantry Center wanted a light machine gun to replace the 5.56 mm M249 Squad Automatic Weapon. The center wanted the three rifle components—a carbine, special compact weapon and designated marksman rifle—to share at least 80 percent of the same parts, and the light machine gun at least 50 percent.

“With such a major change in the system’s concept, we felt we should put the project up for re-bidding,” Clarke said. A request for proposals was posted in May. Competitors have 180 days to respond. In addition to written submissions, they must provide four copies of each variant for testing.

“All of the major gun houses in the United States and many in Europe have shown interest,” he said.

“For us, the issue of a light machine gun is not a problem,” said Sal Fanelli, XM8 program manager at HK Defense. “Getting it to 50 percent commonality is going to be difficult, but we think we can do it.”

Colt Defense LLC, of West Hartford, Conn., is going after the job. “Yes, absolutely, unquestionably,” said Kevin Brown, Colt’s government relations director. Colt designed both the M16 rifle and M4 carbine. It also produces a 9 mm submachine gun similar to the M16 and M4, as well as the M203 grenade launcher.

In 1988, Colt lost the contract for producing M16s for the military services to FN Manufacturing LLC, of Columbia, S.C. FN’s parent company, FN Herstal, of Liege, Belgium, is preparing its own proposal for the OICW, said Marvin Memmert, business unit manager for FN’s M16 and M249 programs.

“It will be something completely different from the M16,” he said. “It will be something along the lines of SCAR.” SCAR is the special forces combat-assault rifle—a family of 5.56 mm and 7.62 mm weapons with a grenade-launcher attachment—that FN Herstal is producing for the U.S. Special Operations Command,

The process of evaluating the proposals and testing prototypes could take another year to 18 months, Clarke said. “The linchpin is going to be coming up with a system that is compatible with a light machine gun,” he said. “There are plenty of people out there who make a good 5.56 mm rifle.”

Meanwhile, “we’re still working the M4s,” he said. “We’re buying several thousand a month from Colt,” he said. “Also, we’ll probably buy a few more M16s to replace those that can’t be repaired. We have to maintain our current fleet while we develop a new one.”

At the same time, progress is being made toward fielding other weapons high on infantry shopping lists. In March, for example, the Army approved a new .50 caliber sniper rifle, the M107. “We’re in full-scale production,” said Peter Errante, deputy product manager for crew-served weapons. He declined to say how many weapons will be produced, adding only, “We’re making them as fast as we can.”

The M107 semi-automatic long-range sniper rifle, as it is known, is a commercial, off-the-shelf product based on the Marine Corps’ M82A3, Errante explained. “We made a lot of changes to improve durability and reliability.”

The M107 comes with two 10-round magazines; a variable-power day optic sight; a hard carrying case for storage, transportation and protection, and a soft case for tactical operations.

Like the M82A3, the M107 is made by Barrett Firearms Manufacturing Inc., of Murfreesboro, Tenn. Both are designed to target vehicles and aircraft at long distances.

Although the M107 can be fired by an individual soldier using a bipod, it is considered a crew-served weapon because snipers work in teams of two, Errante said.

The rifle is big, nearly five feet in length, and heavy, with a weight of 32 pounds. It packs “a pretty significant recoil,” the backward motion of a discharged firearm, he admitted. In the hands of skilled snipers, however, it is extremely accurate, he said. “We’ve had confirmed kills at 3,500 meters in Afghanistan.”

The M107 can be placed on special operations’ ground mobility vehicles, Strykers and even unmanned ground vehicles. “It can be mounted facing to the rear of armored vehicles to keep enemy troops from approaching the vehicle from that direction,” Errante said.

An M107 atop an unmanned ground vehicle can be fired by remote control by an operator at a safe distance, Errante said.

A weapon developed “very quickly as an urgent operational requirement,” Clarke said, is the XM26 12 gauge modular accessory shotgun system. The Army already has shipped 199 of these weapons—made by C-More Systems, of Manassas, Va.—to Afghanistan.

The XM26 attaches underneath the barrel of the M4 and M16, providing troops with the ability to fire lethal, non-lethal and door-breaching rounds, he explained. It also can be fitted with its own butt stock and used as a standalone shotgun.

Still another weapon getting considerable attention in infantry circles is the XM307 25 mm advanced crew-served machine gun. The XM307 is being developed by General Dynamics Armament and Technical Products, of Burlington, Vt., under a 2004 contract worth up to $95 million through December 2007.

The weapon fires 25 mm air-bursting and armor-piercing munitions. Its fire-control system includes a laser range finder and a day-night sight.

The weapon fires 25 mm air-bursting and armor-piercing munitions. Its fire-control system includes a laser range finder and a day-night sight.

The XM307 is intended to replace the two decades-old MK-19 40 mm grenade machine gun and the World War II-era M2 .50 caliber heavy machine gun, said Lt. Col. Kevin Stoddard, product manager for crew-served weapons. Within minutes, it can be converted to the XM312 lightweight .50 caliber machine gun. At 50 pounds, the XM312 is one-third the weight of the M2. The XM307 and XM312 share 95 percent of the same parts.

Both the XM307 and XM312 are being developed for use with the Army’s Future Combat Systems, Stoddard explained. The service plans to have them in the hands of soldiers by fiscal year 2008, he said.

Whuffo

[Gast_Linx_*]

... war jemand in letzter Zeit mal wieder auf den H&K Homepages und hat noch etwas über das XM8 gefunden???

[Panzermann]

Soso, jetzt wollen sie doch ein lMG. Also wieder alles zurück auf Start?

[GFF_phoenix]

stimmt, war heute da ist mir aber nicht aufgefallen das man nix mehr übers xm8 findet. aber umso mehr gibt es übers hk416

[Rambo]

Ich merke dass ich zuviele Ami Seiten lese.
\"Gegner\".

Du meinst Menschen ?

Interessanter Begriff dafür.

[Whuffo]

Was soll das denn jetzt? Du warst doch beim Bund!

"Auf erkannten Feind Feuer frei!" und nicht "Auf erkannten Menschen Feuer frei!"


Whuffo

[Panzermann]

Unter rot-grün wird doch nur noch mit Wattebäuschen und Baumkuscheln der Krieg gewonnen. Wir diskutieren unsere emotionalen Unstimmigkeiten und gleichen so unseren Ungelichgewichte gegenseitig aus, Du ey. Frieden schaffen ohne Waffen und so.  ;)


Trennung.


Die Meldung passt zu einem Gerücht, welches Ich aufschnappte, daß das XM8 Projekt tot ist. Warum wieso? Keine Angabe.  Ich hasse die Gerüchteküche.

[vamp]

Letztes Endes wird man AK108 einkaufen und mit Plastik verkleiden  :lol
Billig und gut  :kma

[Panzermann]

Wohl kaum.


ansonsten geht es hier weiter: http://www.whq-forum.de/cgi-bin....t=23274

[lastdingo]

Da die Kaliberdiskussion auch zum XM8 gehört, lade ich das hier mal hier ab.

http://de.geocities.com/lastdingo/p050_amm...mmo_roundup.pdf

Es ist ein Artikel von einem Bekannten, zum Thema 6.5mm Grendel vs. 6.8mm SPC.
Sein Herz schlägt für 6,5 und noch mehr für sein eigenes 6mm Design (er ist ein Aussenballistikfan), aber 6,8 ist selbst seiner Meinung nach besser.

Ich finde, der Artikel ist für die interessierte Öffentlichkeit sehr gut geignet und gut nachvollziehbar.