Entsprechende Fähigkeiten sollte sie aber in gewisser Weise auch haben. Immerhin ersetzt sie die F-16.

[...] bis auf die eher mäßigen Flugleistungen ist sie dafür gut gerüstet. [...]

'Mäßige Flugleistungen'? Im Vergleich zu wem? Wie kommst du zu dieser Bewertung? Die Aussagen der Piloten zeichnen ein anderes Bild.

F-35A Flight Sciences Assessment
- The program announced an intention to change performance specifications for the F-35A, reducing turn performance from 5.3 to 4.6 sustained Gs and extending the time for acceleration from 0.8 Mach to 1.2 Mach by 8 seconds. These changes were due to the results of air vehicle performance and flying qualities evaluations.

Discoveries included:
- Horizontal tail surfaces are experiencing higher than expected temperatures during sustained high‑speed / high‑altitude flight, resulting in delamination and scorching of the surface coatings and structure.

F-35B Flight Sciences Assessment
- The program announced an intention to change performance specifications for the F-35B, reducing turn performance from 5.0 to 4.5 sustained Gs and extending the time for acceleration from 0.8 Mach to 1.2 Mach by 16 seconds. These changes were due to the results of air vehicle performance and flying qualities evaluations.

Other discoveries included:
- As with the F-35A, horizontal tail surfaces are experiencing higher than expected temperatures during sustained high-speed/high-altitude flight, resulting in delamination and scorching of the surface coatings and structure. The program modified the tail surfaces of BF-2 in September to permit flight testing at higher airspeeds. The coatings delaminated during flight, however, suspending further flight testing in the higher airspeed envelope until a new plan for the coatings can be developed.

F-35C Flight Sciences Assessment
-The program announced an intention to change performance specifications for the F-35C, reducing turn performance from 5.1 to 5.0 sustained Gs and increasing the time for acceleration from 0.8 Mach to 1.2 Mach by at least 43 seconds. These changes were due to the results of air vehicle performance and flying qualities evaluations.

Discoveries included:
- Due to the difference in wing design, transonic buffet becomes severe in different portions of the flight envelope and is more severe in the F-35C than the other variants . The program is making plans for investigating how to reduce the impact of transonic roll off in the F-35C with the use of wing spoilers; however, detailed test plans are not complete.
- As with the F-35A and F-35B, horizontal tail surfaces are experiencing higher than expected temperatures during sustained high-speed/high-altitude flight, resulting in delamination and scorching of the surface coatings and structure. In August, the test team installed new coatings on CF-1 horizontal tails, designed to prevent scorching and delaminating during prolonged use of afterburner pursuing high airspeed test points. However, portions of the coatings dis-bonded during flight, suspending further testing of the high airspeed portion of the envelope.

Das hatten wir doch schon vor einiger Zeit. Und Aussagen der Piloten gab es in der Vergangenheit viele.
Aber von mir aus noch einmal:
[...]

[...] Das Problem ist, dass dabei im entsprechenden DOT&E-Bericht 2012 nicht angegeben war unter welchen Bedingungen dieser sustained Maximalwert gilt, d.h. ohne die Angabe von Höhe, Geschwindigkeit und Zuladung ist er eher weniger aussagekräftig. Ich gehe allerdings davon aus, dass dieser für die damals auch im Lastenheft angegebenen zu erreichenden sustained turn Werte für 15K feet Höhe & 0.8 Mach gilt.

[...]

Was die F-35 nicht ist ...

The USAF will be able to form a better idea of the F-15’s future once the F-35 becomes a full operational platform, Harris told reporters. He also countered that the F-16 could perform the F-15’s traditional air-to-air role, something lawmakers have questioned.

Also liegen die Werte etwa (vermutlich) auf F-16-Niveau, was wir damals und du auch jetzt wieder feststellst. Der Vergleich mit der auf Kurvenkampf optimierten F-15 hinkt, das war nicht das Ziel und dieser Jet soll auch nicht von der F-35 ersetzt werden.

Nur für mein Verständnis, welche stationäre Wenderaten haben Eurofighter und Tornado?

Einen Tornado fängt man nicht so einfach, wenn der im Tiefflug nahe der Schallgrenze dahin düst. So nah über dem Grund und bei der Geschwindigkeit ist das selbst heute noch für Lenkwaffen aller Art extrem schwer.

Was mich wundert, dass man bis heute erfolgreich sämtliche Daten des EF geheim halten kann. Bei der F-15 und F-16 wurden schon recht früh einige Daten zu Wenderate, Steigleistung usw bekannt. Sogar über den Tornado erfährt man extrem wenig. Die Europäer können wohl besser Geheimnisse behalten als die Amis, dabei tun die Amis so, als wären wir unzuverlässig wenn es um Geheimnisse geht...

Die Frage mit dem Eurofighter war so gedacht:
Ein Eurofighter als Jäger wäre ja ein "geplanter" Gegner im Luftkampf. Der Tornado als JaBo ja ein geplantes "Opfer" Da wär es peinlich, wenn das Opfer ebenbürtige Wendigkeit vorweisen könnte. Darum hätten mich die Werte interessiert.

Warum haben dann die Briten mehrere Tonis während Desert Storm verloren als sie im Tiefflug Angriffe flogen und sie deshalb in große "sichere" Höhen zurück geholt?

Wie viele Kriege gegen hochgerüstete und gut ausgebildete Gegner gab es seitdem?

Die Frage mit dem Eurofighter war so gedacht:
Ein Eurofighter als Jäger wäre ja ein "geplanter" Gegner im Luftkampf. Der Tornado als JaBo ja ein geplantes "Opfer" Da wär es peinlich, wenn das Opfer ebenbürtige Wendigkeit vorweisen könnte. Darum hätten mich die Werte interessiert.

Da muss angefügt werden das es keinen Einfluss hat ob der Jet ein Tornado ist oder nicht; aus überhöhter Position eine Lenkwaffe auf ein Ziel aufzuschalten ist meistens schwierig (Ich glaub das nennt man Bodenclutter?).

Israel weighing interest in STOVL-variant F-35

03 August, 2017

New threats faced by Israel have placed the potential purchase of short take-off and vertical landing (STOVL) variant Lockheed Martin F-35Bs as a high priority.

Discussions are under way, with Israel's defence ministry hoping to reach a decision before a new 10-year Foreign Military Financing agreement with the USA comes into effect in 2019.

Deliveries of conventional take-off and landing F-35Is to the Israeli air force continue, with the service having so far placed orders for 50 examples. The “Golden Eagle” squadron which operates the "Adir" and the air force's flight test squadron continue to adapt the stealth fighter to meet the nation's specific requirements, with this work including the addition of a number of Israeli-developed systems.

Israel's initial requirement was for 75 F-35s, and the need to replace older Boeing F-15 fighters – the oldest of which were delivered in 1976 – is becoming a high-priority issue.

Sources indicate that the Israeli air force will have to choose between obtaining additional F-35s – potentially including STOVL examples – or an advanced version of the F-15. No details have been revealed of the potential F-15 variant on which evaluations are being based, but this is expected to be capable of carrying an expanded weapons load.

U.S. Army Eyes F-35 As Missile Defense Sensor

08 Aug 2017 James Drew

"HUNTSVILLE, Alabama—The U.S. Army is interested in the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II, but not for dropping bombs, close air support or dogfighting. The service believes the F-35 has potential as an airborne sensor for integrated air and missile defense.

The F-35 could essentially support the Army the same way that the Northrop Grumman E-2D Advanced Hawkeye acts as the eyes of the U.S. Navy for early detecting and tracking of airborne threats. It could provide targeting data to land-based interceptor systems such as Patriot long before those threats show up on ground radars. An official with the U.S. Army Space and Missile Defense Command/Army Forces Strategic Command (USASMDC/ARSTRAT) says a classified forum has been established to investigate how the F-35 community can support the air and missile defense mission.

Richard De Fatta, director of the USASMDC/ARSTRAT’s future warfare center, says discussions are ongoing about how to integrate the Joint Strike Fighter for taking out ballistic and cruise missiles. “It’s a great capability, so let’s see where it can contribute as an overhead asset,” he said at a Raytheon-sponsored forum here on Aug. 7, ahead of the annual Space and Missile Defense Symposium. “We’re seeing where we could go with it and what’s the art of the possible.”

Participants in the discussions include the F-35 program office and operational users such as the U.S. Air Force. Army interest in the F-35 follows a successful demonstration by the Navy in 2016, during which a Marine Corps F-35B directed Raytheon’s Standard Missile-6 against a target drone. The flight test took place at the White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico on Sept. 12, 2016, after several years of discussion and preparation.

A Lockheed official said the demonstration resulted in a center-off-mass hit of the target on the first try. The test combined two of Lockheed’s most prominent military systems, the F-35 and Aegis Combat System. Targeting data from the F-35’s active electronically scanned array radar was passed to the Aegis “Desert Ship” at White Sands via the aircraft’s secure data relay systems, the low-probability-of-intercept Multifunction Advanced Data Link (MADL).

The Navy’s ultimate goal is to seamlessly integrate the F-35 and other airborne sensors into its next-generation networking architecture, the Naval Integrated Fire Control-Counter Air. Although not a substitute for the E-2D, the low-observable F-35 flies faster and is more survivable. The aircraft’s stealth features allow it to get closer to potential threats without being detected.

The Army has long been pursuing tethered aerostats, such as JLens, for detection and tracking of airborne threats. But aerostats, airships and balloons are far less responsive than a fighter jet, despite being far cheaper to operate long-term."

Man favorisiert Stealth, will aber mit dem Radar aufklären. Irgend wie beißen sich die Anforderungen, oder es ist nur Werbeblahblah für die Öffentlichkeit.